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Weapons, how elaborate should they be added to the game?

Discussion in 'General' started by War.Freak, Jan 17, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. War.Freak Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    61
    Please read description before voting!

    *edit 18/01/2015: Let me remind you with information from Keen on what a medieval engineer is and does link*

    There seems to be a high need of some kind of weapons according to the forums, as seen here and here

    Marek clearly stated the game is about engineering and building contraptions, to reach your goals. But when survival will come out, what will you defend with early in the game? if one or two barbarians come for you but you havent had the time to build a contraption for defence? do you hide in your small cabben that you barly finished builing?
    There seems to be a need for atleast some kind of hand held simple weapon. But i think i see a problem on the forums. not everyone talks about the same amount of weapons and some want none, some want just a sword to defend with, others want full on armories full of a variety of heavy hitting hand held weapons, while just tools can do the necessary damage too.
    So what do you want? On the bottom of this post there is an explanation of the options in the poll. On a side note, who will use these weapons, players or NPC's, is irrelevant for the poll, please make a comment instead.

    A different matter is how hard these weapons will hit. This is not included in the poll, leave a comment on how much damage you want weapons or tools to do and mention what weaponizing you choose for.


    Here is an explanation of the poll options:

    1. You have a wide arsenal availeble and can choose from almost any medieval weapon, from a powerfull 2 hand held sword to a dagger to even a morning star. Also including ranged hand held weapons. Compared to your tools, your tools are practically harmless.

    2. This is like option 1 but it only has melee weapons.

    3. You can choose from just a few availeble weapons. They can help you defend on your walls if you haven't gotten defensive contrapsions just yet, or for when an ememy breached your walls.
    This would be an example of few availeble weapons to choose from:
    - a bow
    - a spear
    - a small sword for selfdefence
    - a longsword
    - small rocks to throw down walls at your attackers
    and your other tools (an axe for a good example) inflict some little damage aswell.
    (the general idea here is that you can choose from about 5 different weapons that dont do too much damage)

    4. There are just one or two (or three or four) melee weapons in the game to fend of any simple attacks or trolls or griefers. Or to take out just the last remaining enemies on the battlefield. for example a small sword (dagger) and a big sword (longsword). Your tools also inflict some minor damage.

    5. You are limited to your tools for selfdefence, they do quite some damage but just barely to fend of a single barbarian or a surprised attacker. You will need to rely on your constructions and contraptions for harm and destruction.

    6. No hand held tool will deal damage and there are no hand held weapons in the game. You will fend of your enemies with your contraptions.

    7. You simply dont care or dont know what you want. Any of the above options are fine to you.

    there is no "other" option, simply comment ;)


    And this is my opinion:
    Personally I would choose option 3 or 4/5.
    for option 3: I feel there will be a need for simple ranged and melee weapons for defence, BUT these should do little damage compared to what your contraptions can do.
    Otherwise dealing damage with just a sword and tools (or just only tools) will be a necessity for the game at some point in development. I think hand to hand combat will be unavoideble but that doesn't mean you need wide range of weaponary availeble.
    Also letting small rocks fall on your enemies next to the walls would be cool and historically accurate.


    Also dont forget to check this post out, it's not directly related to this poll, but is something to consider: http://forums.keenswh.com/post/shields-7249930

    P.S sorry about my grammar and spelling :S
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2015
  2. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,942
    I think I few weapons like a long sword, broad sword, and short sword, Then for bows a crossbow and long bow.
     
  3. K^2 Apprentice Engineer

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    174
    I would be quite happy with generic sword and generic bow. Some variations on these could be nice too, just to add progression, but armories of time-appropriate weapons would be a waste of dev time. Not that I would not want them, but that can be modded in.
     
  4. Steelpanther Apprentice Engineer

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    347
    Need a pike to put the heads of my enemies upon.
     
  5. Devland99 Trainee Engineer

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    88
    Personally I think we should implement
    -Workshop weapon support
    - 3 Swords, Short, long, 2 Handed >:D
    - Axes, Your tool
    - Spear
    - Bow and Arrow/Crossbow
    - Last but not least, who doesn't want a good ole fashion Hammer?
     
  6. sammyson9 Trainee Engineer

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    4
    Why not being able to just make your own sword that you designed out of iron, steel, & wood on something like a blacksmiths table?
     
  7. Dragon0G Junior Engineer

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    550
    I definitely want hand-held weapons in this game--some close-quarters, some ranged, and all with a side of maintenance. If you kill a few too many barbarians, you get a dull blade, and if you don't happen to make enough arrows for your bow, you're out of luck. On another train of thought, perhaps axes or swords could break the wooden pieces that make up siege engines. We need a way of taking them down quickly in battle. What better to deal with them than to make a quick pass and take out a few supports on the enemy's trebuchet?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2015
  8. Wintersend Senior Engineer

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    2,095
    Yeah, cut a few ropes, take a couple of shots at load-bearing beams and even if you don't get all the way through, that should cripple the thing, possibly to the point of collapsing and shooting splinters of wood out on its next shot due to not being able to handle the added forces of firing. That would arguably be worse for the attacker than if you just broke the thing.
     
  9. Diehard Trainee Engineer

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    11
    In terms of simplicity and development, I prefer option 3, with option 1 being implemented via workshop. All weapons should have to be constructed, and for ranged weapons ammunition also needing to be built, and stored. More complex weapons should require a range of tools / structures to be even able to be built, where as simple tools and weapons could be constructed with simple resources.

    While it doesn't make sense for keen to make every type of sword, bow and axe out there, a simple form of each, and its basic combat technique / use should be more then enough. As long as they add the ability for the community to add every weapon out there that they want to have.

    I don't like options 5-7, as it seems kinda messed up that the only way I can defend myself vs a lone attacker, is to build some sort of catapult and have a 1v1 catapult war. It ruins immersion and pigeon holes players in what options they have to defend their castle with.

    Option 4 seems a little basic and defeats the purpose of having a castle to defend if one does not have any ranged weapons to defend it with. Not much point in having 30 soldiers defending a castle if all of them only have swords.. and you have to open the front door in order to use them. And option 4 only leaves things like catapults and trebuchet to defend yourself from range, which again seems like overkill when you just have a few random attackers outside.
     
  10. War.Freak Trainee Engineer

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    61
    first of all very nice feedback (;
    and second, I agree with what you're saying; that you need basic hand held (ranged) weaponry to fend of small attacks. It will make hand to hand combat not as effective, but also not innefective. It takes the focus of development of hand held weapons away while you dont take away the necessary weapons, and if people want more they can mod them in the game. which also makes the game more generic rather than combat focused at the start. This can get the game to a more diverse public
     
  11. aron89 Trainee Engineer

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    11
    i want all the M&B Warband repertory
     
  12. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    1,942
    Just don't start asking for some complex combat system, that's not what this game is about, I believe a simple yet affective one would work like left click to swing right click to block and maybe you can only block so much.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2015
  13. Martinineter Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,253
    We already have some form of a complex combat system, it is called 'dynamic destruction'. This system is very versitile, I do agree that there should be a good hand to hand combat system, but this is not a game based around swordfighting.
     
  14. Diehard Trainee Engineer

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    11
    I agree, the game doesn't need to go into as much depth of melee combat as a game like Skyrim, Witcher, etc. But it does need some basic form of combat that doesn't feel gimmicky, and fills that gap between using a hammer or Batista to defend a castle.

    And with all the beautiful physics going on in this game, id hope to have some decent arrow physics / flight that feels nice. And with Marek's talk about the implementation of fire into the game, id think fire arrows / siege ammo would be a valuable addition to any siege arsenal.
     
  15. colahorn Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    3
    I am agreeing with alot of people i want melee and ranged weapons so we don't have to waste tons of resources killing one person and the more complex weapons and combat systems the more interesting they will be but i don't want them to spend all there valuable time making it so id say a good combat system but as simple of weapons as possible because modders will just make more weapons anywayand the simpler weapons would hopefully decrease the time it would take to make them
     
  16. Erik_3E Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    43
    Well they should let the player engineer his own weapons in game just like they should let player engineer fields for crops and farming techniques they have to have horses you can ride and drag your wagons to transport your siege weapons. Ais could help you defend your castle but you would have to have food to keep them alive. Also the player should only have 1 life but if the player have Ais helping him defend he should be able to pick one Ai that the player will become (kinda like an heir). It is an engineering game but it also have de name "medieval" so a medieval setting needs to be present and dont forget that anything you create have to have a purpose. Why create a castle with walls if you have no use for it and why have seige weapons if you cant seige an enemy maybe even starve him out but let him live and abandon his castle. Thinking about it why not let the player play as multiple characters and while the player is not playing as a character let the Ai control him for the player. That way if the player have multiple castles he could switch to an Ai actually in a castle being attacked and need defending or just let the AI deal with it if he/she so wished.
     
  17. Dragon0G Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    550
    I agree with you here. A simple attack for close-quarters combat with a parry that has a short duration (about a second, like in Chivalry: Medieval Warfare) and a cooldown of about half that. Just enough so that you have to time your blocks perfectly in order to avoid attacks, or else you're left wide open for the enemy. Simple, yet effective.

    3.


    This isn't a realistic medieval combat simulator.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2015
  18. War.Freak Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    61
    very nice feedback so far.
    however i don't see any comments/feedback regarding the other poll options, mainly option 1.
    Could the people who voted option 1 (or the other options) please explain why you choose it and why you want it in the game like that?
    Thank you
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2015
  19. GraphicsAndBeer Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    132
    At a minimum I think:
    Ax, Hammer (building tools)
    Sword and Shield
    Bow


    But I would love to see more!
     
  20. ivadovich Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    2
    I think option 3, ...a few weapons choices would be the most logic option seeing what the game is about.
    But I would love to design it myself. Like you have default weapons(sword, bow, shield,...), like a small sword with a default attack and such, but you can customise the layout.
    So it would be fair because everyone has the same weapons, but it would be insanely awesome to design them yourself.
    I think for most people the looks are more important then what the weapons are actually capable of, if it is fair of course.
     
  21. Kregon Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    11
    I voted for option 1. The greater the choices of weapons the better game will be. It will be boring to see all players equiped whit same swords or same models of axes or spears etc!
    This is just some of my preferable weapons what I will gladly use in game:
    [​IMG]
     
  22. NuclearPenguin Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    8
    Heres my thoughts.

    Realistically:

    Sword = Left click swings and hits in a small arc in front of you
    Spear = Left click to stab. Works like a knife from Counter-Strike or Crowbar from HL2 but with more range than the sword above
    Bow = Ranged weapon that shoots arrows

    Id be happy with just the above. You got two types of melee weapons that are dramatically different in appearance and a range weapon.


    Extras if they went with more:

    flail = could use a physics system for the ball and have it only be the hitbox when swung
    Mace = slower, harder hitting sword
    2 hand axe = works like the sword from above but it has a min range that it wont do damage or close to nothing (because of long handle)
    Wood Club = Cheap weapon that takes wood instead of metal to help early game


    Just my personal ideas for the game
     
  23. BB.JoeNado Trainee Engineer

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    70
    Did anyone else see the GIANT sledge hammer that you have as a "tool". I personally dont need any other weapons. Also why fight when you can run?
     
  24. Steelpanther Apprentice Engineer

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    347
    Because I like permanent solutions instead of stop gap.
     
  25. ArmokGoB Trainee Engineer

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    5
    We should take a page from Chivalry for the weapons.
     
  26. waterlimon Senior Engineer

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    1,499
    I dont quite agree with your stance that 'tools' should somehow not deal barely any damage at all compared to REAL weapons.

    I mean, its not like a battle axe is going to be that much of an improvement over a normal one especially considering that you are an engineer and will just be swinging it really hard at the enemy, at which point it doesnt really matter what its that youre swinging as long as its either sharp or heavy or both.

    IMO the damage of all items you can hit people with (tools, weapons, rocks, socks) should be in a realistic range of each other. All of them should have a similar 'stun effect' (I mean, you cant just completely ignore someone rubbing a dirty sock at your face...) and if its heavy you should get knocked over pretty bad (with broken bones or brain damage) and if its sharp you should be dead quickly enough.

    The difference between the best sword eva and a worn out axe should be small enough that the person carrying the axe could easily win a 1 on 1 fight with the right timing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2015
  27. fabiozaza Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    120
    I voted for 1 for the following 2 reasons:

    1. I love the idea of having an armory in the castle where you have filled it with different types of weapons and armor and choose one that you would like to take into battle or just for exploring.

    2. More choice we have with weapons, the more realistic it would feel, (my personal opinion).

    I would not expect that Keen would implement every weapon made during the medieval period, but would be great if they have some for each class that was present during that time.
     
  28. Xylord Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    42
    I'll never say no to more weapons, but I do not think it should be a priority for KSH for ME. A sword and a bow, maybe a spear will suffice, as long as the modding capabilities make it possible to add many more. I do not expect many weapons from KSH, but I sure do hope the community will start pumping new weapons ASAP. So, it's a 3 for me.
     
  29. Ashbringer Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    1
    As this game is still in alpha i suggest there's a few weapons added to begin with. Once the game have been released they can add in many other kind of weapons and stuff. For starters i'd recommend a one-handed sword, a bow and arrows to use. If people don't want weapon it's most likely because they want a building game. If now whoever dosen't like the idea then there should be a option to disable weapons if you don't like it.

    This would make it more fun for me since i simply don't want a multiplayer/co-op game where you can't use weapons if you now can build castles and such. I won't buy the game if there aren't any weapons, i can't enjoy the game with my friends that way. I've got too many building games already.

    This is a suggestion and if there's something you'd like to add for an example enable/disable option then feel free to quote. I'm not looking for a opinion where you dislike my suggestion, if you don't like it then type a own suggestion/opinion that isn't pointing to me withut to the game.

    Thank you for taking your time to read.


    Regards
    Ashbringer
     
  30. BGouch Trainee Engineer

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    22
    +10. Give us basics. Keen do not focus on making pretty hand held weapons thats one reason why you released the sdk with the game. This isnt skyrim or chivalry. Look at minecraft a sword and a bow. And thats all you see on youtube. Not for long though:). Our tools should do damage too. Ive read that Keen maybe wants us to go from stone tools to metal so theres variation there. Plus again MODS. You want a unique sword mod it in the game with the tools they gave us. Someone will surely make a guide as to how.
     
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