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What am I doing wrong?

Discussion in 'General' started by Goliathos, May 10, 2020.

  1. Goliathos Trainee Engineer

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    [​IMG]

    How much of this do I have to do before finding uranium? I'm using a large grid detector at max range and for the last 40 (lost count of how many I've visited in total) or so asteroids I've been drilling through the thickest parts 3-4 times just to make sure nothing is in the center.

    As you can see by the heinous amount of tags up there I've found literally every other resource many times over.

    Is the direction of the game now trying to steer away from nuclear energy? Seems strange given it is the go-to compact power scheme for spacecraft both real and fictional.

    Furthermore, If I am just terribly unlucky... what gameplay purpose does that serve? I like tough objectives but it's not exactly a challenge to go looking for ore, it's just tedious. There's no argument to be made for the difficulty of time spent. I'm not getting better at any gameplay mechanics, it is simply a time sink.

    But I'm posting here as a last resort after doing many searches on google and elsewhere that all seem to end in half the crowd saying "just keep looking" and the other half saying they actually want it to be more rare.

    This isn't meant to be whining, but some solid answers would go a long way to let me know if I should even keep bothering. If the majority of players think it's fine how it is, that is their prerogative and I'll happily move to a different game.

    Thank you!
     
  2. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,833
    You really have been unlucky. Asteroid ore spread is random. Either that or not thoroughly enough searching. I believe each cluster should have 2 or 3 ore types?

    You are searching with a maxed out large ore detector, yes?

    Some stores sell uranium though.


    All that said, the biggest problem is that ore detectors have too low range. This is because of their performance impact but I believe they can safely at least double it...
     
  3. Calaban Junior Engineer

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    986
    In my experience since the economy update ore distribution seems to be a bit "regional".

    Most of those gps tags appear to be around within 65km of each other. Thats a pretty singular region. You can see the common ore combos in that tag cloud repeated often.

    To get a "fresh roll of the dice" on those mixes, you need to strike out to a definitely different region. on earth, that would mean 45-50km away, but in space that = 150-200km away. or 2000km away. The asteroids around mars definitely seem to favor more uranium in my experience.

    This was all a meta change to the game around economy and multiplayer optimization. The developers wanted us to "travel and explore more" and not turtle up as was commonly seen. What they changed was: some algorithm that ensures not every ore is going to be available a short trip away from any given point. It used to be very common to find all ores within 5-15km of you starting point. Those days are gone. I regularly earmark gold, uranium, platinum spots and jump back to them later

    So, 2 tips/advice:
    - invest in a jump drive. it is worth the grind. For one you can jump right to asteroids in your crosshairs (safety blind jump cutoff), sparing you the time of actually flying there. secondly, when you notice a lack of the ore you want. jump elsewhere. seriously elsewhere. and try your luck there.

    - If youve played long enough to believe that Clang may actually exist (as an AI behind the game engine curtain, messing with/manipulating us with odd coincidences), you can try what ALWAYS seems to work for me- run out of Iron and go "just make a quick run for some" At that point I will never find iron... but will you look at that- suddenly uranium ore patches. 3-4 in a row. ....to Taunt me with.
     
  4. Goliathos Trainee Engineer

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    Yes I am using a large grid, maxed out ore detector, towed behind a small hydrogen engine craft via connector.

    Interesting advice. I'll look into jump drives.

    Not to be a jerk but would it possible to link the source material for the ore gen claims( edit: I'm reading through the economy update right now)? I would like to read through them to better understand. Do you know about what version the changes dropped?

    The giant cluster I've found contains every other resource in the game many times over (Magnesium being the most rare coming in at around 7 clusters or so). This makes me somewhat skeptical of the regional theory but I don't have much time, relatively speaking on the latest version. Last time I played was several years ago.
     
  5. hippybaker Trainee Engineer

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    89
    I also will travel to a new location to look when an ore is rare..

    Just go 100 km or so, and search. That usually works for me

    Since the survival update it's been that way. Marek said somewhere in some interview to do that, and it always works for me.
     
  6. Goliathos Trainee Engineer

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    5
    I was just trying that. I went 145km past my original scouted cluster (towards Mars) and surveyed another 18 asteroids (2-3 drill-throughs each), same ore distribution as before. That exercise has taken me the better part of three hours.

    I think I just gotta come to terms with the fact that this game isn't for me. I had a lot of fun when I first bought it but they have clearly taken a direction in my absence that makes things a little too tedious for the time I have available to play.
     
  7. hippybaker Trainee Engineer

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    89
    Yeah, I get it... Ore hunting can get a little tedious.

    but...
    I'll never forget how happy I was to find the largest uranium deposit I've ever seen 85 km from my Earth Orbital Platform... and then a bunch of smaller ones all around it..

    I set a couple micro miners with PAM, made a small refining platform, and then set a shuttle with PAM to run the ingots home to my base, all automatically..

    The joy of seeing that wee little freighter bringing uranium to my base every half hour or so was awesome. (haha, till it hit me one time and I died)
     
  8. Calaban Junior Engineer

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    986
    A jump drive will negate the tedium. Instead of slow travelling at around 6km a minute top speed to distant places or even the next roid, a jump drive gets you there in 10 seconds. And such micro jumps use only .2-.3% of jump capacitor, so can be used constantly with hardly any recharge delays. Go from tedious grind to blink warping to dozens of roids.

    The ore redistribution isnt really listed in an update change. The plan to do so was in an interview with Splitsie where Marek stated he "wanted players to travel more" and shortly afterwards we saw the solid iron core of roids, with mixes of other ores in them utterly vanish to these 0-2, 3 if your lucky ore micro patches. Also at this time the planet ore patches became regional as well- silicon/magnesium very common in desert biomes, rather rare in woods. These fundamental changes in ore is not documented in any update, but was a huge change in how we play.

    The regional notion is from time played- experience gained doing those searches much like yourself. After filling a system with such gps markers, the picture became clear. Uranium was found in regions, seen grouped together in rough blobs of "concentration" after extensive survey. Sure there were .1% of uranium here and there, but after mapping uhhh LOT of roids, the concentration became more apparent- uranium and platinum are not evenly everywhere.

    One would say your skymap of markers is a Platinum rich region... as it is not that common in everyday experience.

    The way to map 100s of roids in one hour is this:
    - set up a "cruise mode" on your large grid ore detector ship: dampeners on, but backwards thrusters off. This way you can still steer around obstacles, but are essentially coasting still. Depending on your ships maneuverability, adjust speed accordingly, for me 60m/s is about right.
    - Set jump drive to blind jump to 100km or so. Then pick a direction that is re-findable, like a distant alien world landmark, and point crosshairs at a roid in front of you. Blind jump through it, safety protocols will cut jump distance to right TO it instead. Handy.
    - still at cruising speed, change course to "buzz" past the roid- as close and fast as your dare, fingers ready to hold alt key to see whats there as you flit by. Have fun with it, dodge micro roids that render a bit too late/close.
    - you spot an ore, lets say magnesium... simply open chat and type "/gps mg" and presto, that roid is gps'd and you havent stopped moving, not even left POV view. listing ores like this will group all the diff ores together on your gps list, making it easier to filter the views to show only the ores you need at a particular time. The gps will auto number multiples of "mg" gps marks for you as well.
    - repeat and jump to the next one. If nothing spotted.. [shrug] Type "/gps ." to mark it with a dot just to indicate youve been there aready- and to not return.
    - If you spot what your looking for- hit the BRAKES, mark up a good gps mark, goto gps list and double click away the view of all the nonsense marks, and return to base to begin warping your mining operation to the new spot in one serious jump the next time.

    I guess the Space Engineers game itself is about players finding ways to "engineer solutions to any practical problems. In space" And the above step by step survey sequence is a good example of engineering a way around the Practical Problem of "looking for the ore I need is tedious/hard"

    I read you are towing a large ore detector around on a small ship- Sooo rather than try to engineer a "warp chariot" to flit your small ship around (is possible, and fun, but complicated), I recommend you hold off your dreams of nuclear fire until such time that your infrastructure can produce a large grid orbiter jump ship on world to do the serious jump surveys, continuing to use the simple hippie solar/battery/turbine tech in the meantime. Returning to the earth-like surface in all your nuclear glory is really an end game stage. Sure its possible to grass-roots nuclear start up- but that requires you to be suuuper lucky on ore finds... so is not a play through to bank on.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Goliathos Trainee Engineer

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    5
    Thanks for the suggestions. If I ever come back to this I'll have to give them a shot. However, I don't really considering ways to game an already random system (whose parameters are apparently not specifically written down anywhere accessible to me) to be 'engineering'. I have no solution that I can innovate to even determine generally where I should go to find something. That is, no matter how assisted via technique, still blindly grasping in the dark. Having to physically fly a craft within 150m of a body in space to ascertain what may be inside of it is very small scope compared to the rest of what a space game aims/should aim to achieve. From an outward perspective it seems far more like a stopgap measure to address a problem with a certain pattern of play being too prevalent.

    Maybe at some point, there will be more incentive for people to not 'turtle', rather than flavors of space metal available in certain areas. Until then, I just can't rationalize spending 10-20 hours on a step of the game that pretty hugely impacts future station and ship design.
     
  10. Calaban Junior Engineer

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    986
    [shrug] sorry this game is not for you.

    The lack of a manual and purposeful lack of any instructions or formulae... with serious consequences for mistakes- often utter disaster- is quite literally "the game". You build a thing to meet a need. It goes boom and kills you 12 times in a row. Or you run out of fuel/power/air in a permanent sense. Or fall out of the sky to crash for some unknown reason/failure int he Machine you built. Maybe you are learning the mechanics of this universe the hard way.

    - for you are a freshly printed engineer clone, blinking to awareness in unknown space and time. There is no manual. You are falling. Your arm tablet has some basic blueprints for components to make assemblies. Someone left power tools in your pocket. Get to work.

    .. what you do with that situation is what makes you the Engineer here. Blindly grasping in the dark for the things you need, and building a way to thrive regardless... is the point of it all in Survival mode- and in case you wonder why its called Survival mode in the first place... well, here we are. Its the Surviving in spite of the hardships regardless that is the challenge. Just be thankful Clang got more kind in his older age and rotor piston combos or locking landing gear to dirt no longer blows up every single thing you made 80% of the time. Surviving in spite of that was the Old School badge of pride.

    Having a preconceived notion of what you want to find or do is beside the point. You need to get yourself there first. I guess it could be said you 4th wall broke frustration into yourself.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  11. Goliathos Trainee Engineer

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    5
    I really do see what you mean. A younger me (with more time) may have found the same satisfaction. I just think the combination of laughably low powered detection equipment combined with unwritten ore gen rules falls into a weird half-assed area of the game trying to create content where there is none. I don't fault anyone for enjoying it all and can imagine quite the dopamine rush of finding uranium... I just don't have the time for it.
     
  12. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,871
    I think a lot of people's mistakes trying to ferret out ores in asteroids is to set of in a single direction, go to an asteroid, fail to find the ore of choice, then move to what appears to be the next-closest asteroid, repeating the process over and over again until frustration at not finding what's needed finally overwhelms them. I have played many, many survival games where I've had to search dozens and dozens (sometimes over 100) asteroids to get what I need (usually platinum, uranium, and/or gold; I like to use yield modules on my refineries to double their output, and gold is an essential ingredient for building them). But, that's the mistake...heading off in a single direction and searching. More times than I can count I've headed back to my base and intentionally set off in a different direction (by looking at how GPS coordinates are clustered) only to find the ore of my dreams less than 10 km away. I'm just saying...
     
  13. Calaban Junior Engineer

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    986
    FYI I head in a general direction to prevent going in circles... or actually, to prevent the anxiety of the thought that maybe Im going in circles.. no one needs that.

    More often than not I find that rare dopamine ore patch during other play- like investigating distress signal and pirate signals... check the nearby roid on my way to and from them.... win-win
     
  14. Capt.SkuLL Trainee Engineer

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    haha same here my friend. only i was looking for Platinum but found uranium instead. i ended up taking parts from enemy drones which is a bit of a cheat.
     
  15. Soup Toaster Apprentice Engineer

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    I'm a compulsive game-starter and find it entertaining just to play to the point where I have tons of processed resources, and for me it's rare to not find everything with 20-30 asteroids. Something I started doing that REALLY made the process easier was to build a small ship right off the bat with a large detector attached by rotor, then fly out to a near asteroid leaving the start pod behind, then start flying in a circle around my start pod, NOT just flying generally away or going in random directions. The biggest reason to search in a sphere pattern is that all the resources you find will be as close to your start pod as possible. Traveling 10k or 15k is WAY better than having to travel 40k to a deposit and drastically cuts down on the time it takes to build yourself up.

    Another important tip is don't bother drilling through the big 'roids. Do a quick loop or 2 around them and if nothing pops up and you don't see anything on the surface just mark as empty and move on. For the fastest results stick as much as you can to small and "splattered" asteroids. It's easy to find the ore that might be there and the ore tends to be WAY easier to access.

    It's also a good idea to keep a GPS list of good ore finds in a notepad file or something, as once you get your jumpdrive ready you can as a last resort jump to an ore deposit you found in a previous play through.
     
  16. DragonShadow Apprentice Engineer

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    407
    That is legal salvage! lol

    Once Keen added in the mayday encounters I find myself salvaging a lot more and usually mining only for the rarest materials (and ice, although in my current survival game ice is rare so far).
     
  17. Calaban Junior Engineer

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    986
    Yes- living a "scrapper/junker" life investigating mayday signals is a viable option- a whole different way to play.

    No more scratching in the dirt like a caveman, waiting for refineries and factories to make stuff.. You can instead go the other way- find and take stuff, render it down to ingots, or add it to your space hulk. The amount of materials out there is enough to thrive on directly, in the end all you need is Uranium, and even that can be bought at npc stations.

    Drill? what drill? Man- that sounds kinda boring. I want to explore, get shot at, overcome the challenge, claim the loot. build from or scrap the leftovers. Move on to the next one. (I think a "never mine" playt hrough series showing this different way would be interesting)
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  18. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,723
    Don't bother looking it's freaking pointless Keen made it too hard to find it naturally just go to these gps locations..... just think of it as a fellow engineer sharing intel.

    GPS:145016:123516.34:-11471.84:
    GPS:161160.3:110903.6:-7197.36:
    GPS:174393.11:49675.22:5430.91:
    GPS:153606.49:18163.59:-27862.74:
    GPS:174445.84:49559.11:5529.49:

    I spent literally months looking for it before asking if someone had gps locations and these were the gps points shared with me and finally I have uranium.
     
  19. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,871
    Nah, it's not a cheat. They're the enemy: kick their ass and take their gas!
     
  20. Soup Toaster Apprentice Engineer

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    *tips hat*
     
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  21. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,833
    Unless this is on a specific server, those GPS coords are gonna be less than useful since ores are random... except on planets that is
     
  22. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,723
    I kinda forgot the game had multiplayer.... if it's the default star system with planets then all the gps locations should line up with the same things..... until keen change something about the seed I guess.
     
  23. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,871
    People play multiplayer? Just...why?
     
  24. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,833
    Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure even two solo star system worlds will be different. I don't play MP btw.



    ---


    Yep. Confirmed. It's the same. I am officially very disappointed.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    • Funny Funny x 1
  25. Capt.SkuLL Trainee Engineer

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    so this means, the ores in star systems are not randomly generated ?

    this beats replayability ( if its a word ) as once you get used to it you will know where to find ores automatically.
     
  26. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,871
    I wonder if KSH uses a randomizer for the seed and, if so, what seeds the randomizer?

    My brain! It hurts!!
     
  27. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,833
    @Capt.SkuLL It is randomly generated, however they clearly use the same seed - which will result in the same random numbers (after all, there's no such thing as true random in a computer).

    Which, to me, is painfully disappointing and I wish I didn't know... sometimes ignorance really is bliss :p
     
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  28. Capt.SkuLL Trainee Engineer

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    91
    i just confirmed today , i created a new game, i keep pressing F5 to select the location suited for me, landed on the exact same spot i built a base on my previous saves ... :<
     
  29. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,833
    The planets were never procedural. They're heightmap based. The asteroids, however, are. But that doesn't matter if the seed is identical...
     
  30. Calaban Junior Engineer

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    986
    This is upsetting- that the solar system world is identical every time, Ore patches being not procedural, as it turns out. I recall reading (and experiencing) that the planet ore patch locations are the same, but what they have is varied, wonder if even thats true anymore.

    This makes exploration pointless, as players can just "return to same old place" over an over (and get bored instantly it seems to me)

    It is good to know, tho- now I can find that solid uranium core roid over and over.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020