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What Are We Reasonably Expecting Will be Addressed in the "Survival Update"?

Discussion in 'General' started by Stardriver907, Jun 28, 2018.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    Okay.... temperature mechanics in some way coming - confirmed? THAT gets me a bit excited, I gotta say!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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  3. Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    temperature mechanics will only be an additional energy drain system for the suit - excitement gone
     
  4. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    The survival kit is kinda "snazzy" for SE standards. Multiple functions on one block, kinda impressive.
     
  5. sammyvoncheese Apprentice Engineer

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    progression tree.... yuck
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  6. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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  7. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    So anyone else who reads Marek's post do you hear his voice while you read? :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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  8. Morloc Apprentice Engineer

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    I always hear Morgan Freeman.

    Always.


    -Morloc
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    It seems to be unlocked just by building other blocks and it can be turned off. So doesn't really matter.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. PazDim Trainee Engineer

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    I watched a public test. I was hoping for such a research system: http://www.medievalengineerswiki.com/index.php?title=Research. Now the blocks just unlock other blocks. I hope this is just the beginning. I believe that a full-fledged research system should require resources, energy and time (as at a Factorio). And yes, it should be possible to disable it (even in its current form, this worries someone :D). You still need to balance the craft of components - now different components are made from the same resource (iron). Therefore, on an industrial scale it is necessary to extract only iron. I would like to see the need to automate the extraction of all resources (at least the main ones: nickel, silicon, cobalt). Well, balancing and tuning ore caviar.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    I'm not a "survival" player in general, but with the exception of the hydrogen "generator" I think the new blocks and the limits they impose on the game are reasonable.

    I'm going to have to lump the Hydrogen Generator in there with artificial gravity and jump drives. Apparently, for gameplay purposes, there needs to be a way to get energy from ice. Fast. Probably because ice is present on and off planets. The problem is that you need power to get hydrogen from ice, and the "generator" is the source of your power. If you have enough available power to make hydrogen from ice, you probably don't need the generator. This thing is a troll drive.

    Looks cool, though.


    Kinda, in an old-fashioned 20th Century kind of way.





    Game is in the 21st Century, tho...








    Coulda had that generator run off of petroleum liquids or gases. Even plants.






    Algae.












    That wind turbine, now that's survival gear.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Calaban Junior Engineer

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    Yeah, most survival backpacks and crash kits include the tower, airfoils, gearboxes, dynamos, inverters, batteries and/or supercapacitor banks to build an omnidirectional wind turbine power generator... you know... just in case. [/sarcasm]

    I did like that the main thrust of the survival update was "no more massive starter bonus spawnships". You literally were meant to start with no refinery, and no ability to even make a refinery at the start. Gone are the Atmo Landers and Yellow Buses, with Refinery and Assemblers included.

    What worries me though is this progression system in multiplayer, with aggressive players that have already progressed to having everything preying upon newly joined players that simply cannot defend themselves, shoot back, or even run.
     
  13. toddlerself Trainee Engineer

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    I want some details on the changes to ore locations. There was a reference to uranium being removed from planets on Xocliw's stream. Are there other changes to ores? I noticed that there was ice underground when I was on a test server and that certain items required different materials (no silver required for bottles). Will there be uranium on moons or just asteroids? Can you still find the other upper tier ores (silver, gold) on planets? And platinum on moons?
     
  14. Spets Master Engineer

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    Agree, the temperature thing is kinda lame :\
    Why not just add weather particle effects? Not even asking for 100% hyper realistic functional effects, just visual. They put some fireflies, but they can add dust effects, rain, snow, fog? cmon... :words:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    @toddlerself Xoc did confirm no Uranium on planets but he did not say if it would be asteroid only or if moon(s) would have the uranium as well. I think during the test run the Ore Detectors were not functioning properly as I never got a reading of any ore and I was scouring for just some Cobalt. The only other ore I came across visually was Ice. (This was on Earth-like planet)
    --- Automerge ---
    @Spets you know the answer will probably be it is a Havok / Engine issue and can not be done. :) :)
     
  16. WraithLeader1 Apprentice Engineer

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    I suggest everyone who likes the yellow bus, blue drill, etc... Blueprint them, then make your own start.... Btw: I love the little yellow ship; we've went on a lot of adventures together...
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. sammyvoncheese Apprentice Engineer

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    Then why waste any time on it, if its not needed. They should focus on making blocks work right IMO.
     
  18. Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    Well, for new players it might be handy, so it's not really "not needed", I would say - it's a good starter mechanic and I don't think that much time was wasted for it. If anything they implemented a nice disable-function along the way that could be used in scenarios and with the scenario editor :)
     
  19. Malware Master Engineer

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    How? How does it help new players? I don't see how it can. Just an arbitrary number of blocks that are disabled and no actual gameplay mechanic. What does it teach? How does it help? I don't get it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    In most of the cases where I tried to bring new people into the game but did not handeld them, the different blocks and the attached mechanics to them did often confuse players - for example many did not get the hang of the conveyor system for a long time and had problems with concepts like small and large grid difference or small grid small conveyor and small grid large conveyor. Giving those people a chance to learn it block by block and leading them from simple concepts to complex systems by showing them the difference between small grid and large grid first, production and access hatches first and conveyoring and connecting later might scale down the steepness to the learning curve for them. But that's just my opinion :):(
     
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  21. Thrak Junior Engineer

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    535
    Guess that's the downside of being omniscient. ;)

    I kid, I kid. But seriously, I too have brought friends into the game only to have them confused by the block options-- people want to get building right away, and they don't want to spend an hour or two combing through descriptions (especially in survival). So it's a nice idea (especially as it can be turned off for us veteran players). I think the implementation in this case is not ideal, and it may never be. Keen is fitting the existing block taxonomy (armor blocks, production blocks, etc.) into a new hierarchy... it's a little clunky (example: renaming the arc furnace again). And it could be better organized visually; plenty of games of all types use tree structures to visually indicate the needed progression. All that said, as an optional element to the game, I think it will have at least a little value for some. I'm curious to see if modders embrace this (can they, technically?) and fit their own blocks in the progression system.
     
  22. Malware Master Engineer

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    @Sarekh yes, yes, I get how a tech tree in general would help, I've been arguing that for a long time, but I don't see how this one is of any help... There's no gameplay, just what seems like random blocking. I just feel like this pointless restriction without Gameplay interaction would just confuse and annoy me, if I were starting out now And I generally enjoy tech tree stuff, if done OK.
     
  23. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    @Thrak I was wondering the same thing if this would be an issue for modders and if they have to fit their mods into the progression and if so how do they make the determination on what unlocks their block etc.
     
  24. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    Good.AI will give new players basic building progression instructions similar to the controls tutorial/ME quests. It could actually be entertaining if they did it well.

    <survival situation parameters exceeded, activating survival_AI.exe>

    ***

    "Congratulations engineer on surviving your XXXX emergency landing! In order to be able to keep breathing our patented reclaimed air, Krash Survival Help:TM advises you prioritize the following... Doing so guarantees your continued existence up to 63% of the time!"

    <upon completing build tutorial>
    "Your current account balance with Krash Survval Help has exceeded your available Kredit:TM. We apologize for the inconvenience, but current company policy is to withhold any further assistance until this has been rectified. If you believe this was done in error, please contact a Krash Survival Help representative near you. Krash Survival Help thanks you for your patronage and hopes you enjoy living for the rest of your projected 2.358 weeks".

    Disclaimer: Burstar does not claim the previous example was entertaining in any way, and any failure to be entertaining does not constitute grounds for compensation, real or imagined.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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  25. ObjectZero Apprentice Engineer

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    Has there been any comment on when the Survival update might come out?
     
  26. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    @ObjectZero It comes out when it comes out was the last word. :)
     
  27. ObjectZero Apprentice Engineer

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    @mojomann71 I should have known, but figured it was worth asking. Thanks

    I'm just kind of happy we're getting a few new blocks and some gameplay. I would like air tightness to dressed up a little more. As it stands right now there are a number of block that cause small air leaks (looking at corner windows)
     
  28. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    Start a movement #DuctTape LOL
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  29. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    I know everyone, including Keen, thinks this stuff is needed to help new players get the hang of things. I'm with Malware in that the "basic" refinery and assembler do nothing to help a new player understand how things work. Might even be more frustrating for some. Therefore, I don't buy that they help new players.

    However, I like that I can now make a small ship that can actually help me survive. I hate that when I build a small grid ship or vehicle the largest block is the battery. Seriously, I can make a tiny nuclear reactor but if I want to store that power that means the size of the whole thing gets doubled because the battery is the size of a house.

    Aside from the hydrogen "generator" I think the new blocks are all good. They can get off that "it helps new players" high horse, though.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of certain ore not being available on planets. That makes no sense. Planets are so big now that hundreds of people could play on one and not encounter each other. What's wrong with just spreading things around a bit more? Wasn't the main reason to have planets in the first place was to have something to explore? People that start a game on a planet rarely range very far from their starting point, mostly because they can find everything they need right where they are.

    I believe ore deposits found on a planet should be larger and deeper. None of this "a few meters below the surface" crap. Asteroids? Yeah, sure, stuff is right there where you can get at it, and that's why the deposits should be smaller. The point being that the way you mine depends on where you're at. Space mining needs to be different from terrestrial mining, and the player should eventually settle on one way or the other. Right now they are so similar that you can use the same equipment and methods to do both. That's too easy, and it's not realistic even by SE standards.

    If they want to make it so that there are some things that are on planets that are not on asteroids, how about plants and animals?

    You know, like in real life?

    In Jules Verne's "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea," Captain Nemo shunned land entirely and got everything he wanted from the sea. His crew, however, was not as hardcore as he was, so he would occasionally take the Nautilus near an island so the crew could get some red meat, fruits and vegetables. I see SE planets as islands where you can find stuff you need that can't exist in the vacuum of space. As it is now, planets are no different from asteroids and you can play exclusively on either one. You should need both, to some extent.

    As a side note, having giant ore deposits and useful flora and fauna on planets might just might encourage the other thing people seem to want: an economic system with trade.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,360
    My son calls this kind of thing, e.g., power discrepancy, “gaming logic.” ;)
     
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