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What Are We Reasonably Expecting Will be Addressed in the "Survival Update"?

Discussion in 'General' started by Stardriver907, Jun 28, 2018.

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  1. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    Yeah it's bad enough having to leave the keyboard to do that in RL, I don't want that as another irritation in SE :p If I want to have to collect food and eat I can do it in Rust
     
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  2. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    See, when it comes to the hunger mechanic we get off on possibilities. Happens every time. I attribute some of it to having the conversation span more than one page. I'm too lazy to find the other thread where we discussed it to death, as in the topic hasn't surfaced for at least two years. I'm starting to believe that the only reason we don't have hunger in the game is because perhaps even Keen got wrapped up in the details concerning possibilities and concluded it would be too much work.

    So, for the record, the ONLY thing Keen would have to do is enable the hunger mechanic as a choice, create a block called "Food Processor", and put Organic Matter back in the game. If they want to do more just because they believe they should do more, they can have wolves and sabroids give meat instead of components. I would prefer a food processor as opposed to using the refinery because it would be a block Modders could play with. Also, processing food in the refinery... ewww. But I suppose one has to do anything to survive. Still... ewww.

    I also feel that whatever else happens, death as a consequence of not eating should take as long as it is possible to stretch out. Hunger should be debilitating but not necessarily lethal. There are so many things in the game already that will kill you, and most of them will do it way before you starve to death. You would want to "eat" to be at your best, and to me that means at least once in every sun rotation. Remember, if you find it irritating in any way you can just turn it off. It should be off by default.


    Since we are talking about the survival update, which I guess should really be called the Gameplay Update, maybe we should talk about death. I guess because the game doesn't have taxes, it doubles down on death. I mean, you don't get hurt, you just die. Why? Because that's how it works in just about every other game. It's so ubiquitous that I bet everyone can name a game where it didn't happen like that and you knew something different was going on.

    I'm talking particularly here about tweaking the game so that instead of just dying, your character goes unconscious, and there is a possibility to be rescued. This would be a mechanic that would only be in Multiplayer because if you are playing alone there's no one to rescue you (that'll learn ya). I think "recovery" should take some time, and I believe the amount of time should be up to the player (yes, that means a slider).
     
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  3. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    Death: It's way to frequent. Considering how buggy the game is, letting this slide during development is understandable. Once everything is working the way it should, death will hopefully become a more severe penalty than it is now. There are settings like "permanent death" which noone in their right mind uses at the moment because it's way to easy to trigger this disaster due to a bug or whatever. I would like to see this changed.

    There are whole stories told in these forums about adventures and engineering challenges resulting from death being a real obstacle. Using drones to pvp and do work instead of using vehicles with cockpits, and shielding bridges from damage as a critical priority come to mind.

    How to improve life vs. death?

    Characters should be more robust. Smacking into things at 30m/s should be survivable at least sometimes, albeit with much damage. Your suit can lift 2600kg, but can't resist collisions? While I'm thinking about this, an adjustable top speed on the jetpack would be really nice too. If I'm just buzzing around a ship working and set the top speed to say 15m/s then I wouldn't kill myself every time I move up and clip a wing or something. Alternatively, a safety system where the suit kicks in dampeners if it detects an imminent player collision.

    I agree that injuries and critical damage should be survivable, perhaps rendering you immobile, reducing your speed, and/or cause damage over time. Solutions could include teammates in MP (or you yourself) hitting you with a first-aid kit, or a medical drone that gets summoned if you're injured and immobile within a certain range. Some sort of 'welder' that acts as a medbay healer would allow for engineering along these lines. An activated emergency beacon on your suit could even act as a penalty if enemies can detect the broadcast...

    The medbay should be more costly instead being a source of free resources. Automatic resetting of your bars shouldn't be a thing. If the bay has no access to oxygen or hydrogen (or food/water) then these bars should be empty when you spawn. I've already mentioned using a delay on the medbay for respawns. During this delay the medical bay should draw crazy power from the grid. Respawns should also require expensive materials. If food was a thing, bio-materials would be a sensible supply. Insufficient bio-materials or power? Spawning (and healing) disabled.
     
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  4. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    This is why such things as grav generators and we even got mag boots is great.
    I would prefer if the game didn't handle some of the few threats in the game (and the biggest one of those is player stupidity or player carelessness)

    Even worse. The games that had body injury system basically removed them, because they are honestly not worth it, and especially with a JET PACK it doesn't make much difference to "reduce your speed" by which I guess you mean acceleration.

    This kind of system seems cool on paper, but when most games implement them they become massive annoyances, rather than... interesting...
    Even ARK, if you take 1 point of damage to much, you are now limping and most certainly dead, unless you manage to reach a dino of your own in time.

    I honestly can't think of a single game beyond the FIRST Fallout where limping was any okay.

    Half of this is the good ol'... Punishes new players a lot, barely affects established players. It becomes essentially the same as before requiring resources, but new players will be frustrated because they got permadeathed because they couldn't find an arbitrary resource in time. If you then say "Oh we will just make it plentiful for new players", well, then.... How are you going to stop older players from getting bio-materials? Uhmm... Just increase price for older players in an SP or MP game? Well then... You just set a soft timer on players, they have to be established to make this bio-materials a non-issue before it becomes to expensive.

    What would you honestly propose? It will either be such an abundant consumable it doesn't feel satisfying (Food and Water in ARK) or it will be super hard for newer players. I'd honestly be interested in hearing a solution that doesn't heavily punish new players but be a complete 99% non-issue for established ones.

    I've seen these kinds of things suggested over and over again, but it is the same things that I hear quite a few people whining about in other games, or mechanics so inconsequential it's silly.
     
  5. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    Food/hunger would be an interesting feature, but what would be the hard cost in terms of time and money? I don't think Keen is going to hire new devs to sketch-out, program and test it. If not, then they have to steal development time from elsewhere in the game.

    Nothing is free...
     
  6. Dax23333 Junior Engineer

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    I don't think death being inconcequential is really an issue. What you lose is the ship you just reduced to shrapnel in the process.

    This is of course assuming that you can't do such things as a single handed grinder assault on major defended targets, at which point it gets a bit silly.
     
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  7. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    It's not about death being inconsequential, it's about the current setting being too harsh, in a multiplayer environment. In fact, for some players death is an advantage, or even a tool. I merely submit that a player should not die if they stub their toe, and certain actions should result in injury but not necessarily death, and an injured astronaut in a multiplayer game should have an opportunity to be rescued and revived as opposed to recreated, hopefully spawning at least a few more medical blocks from the modding community.

    This thread is about what things we think are reasonable requests, and we're all expected to give the reasons, as well as listen to other people's reasons for or against. In this case I don't believe there would be a significant cost in terms of time and/or money. They're doing a gameplay update anyway. Doesn't really require any development. It's all there, and by all I mean the ability to add hunger to the list of character traits and making a component that satisfies the needs of the trait. All the basic stuff to just have hunger is already in the code.
     
  8. Arcturus Senior Engineer

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    I thought it was reasonable expectations, i.e. things we think KSH will do in SE because of evidence or intentions?
     
  9. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    I expect them to do what I request because it's reasonable ;)

    You are right, evidence and intentions should tailor our expectations. However, there's no evidence that they intend to do anything we want, so this thread is more like a list of "quality of life " gameplay stuff we believe would be nice and relatively easy to implement during the implied "Survival Update"
     
  10. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    “Hey, who else could go for some flapjacks right now?”
     
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  11. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    I missed this earlier. This is an interesting viewpoint. I honestly don't see SE as a game that "punishes" and "rewards". The only "price" for consumables is work. You find it, you mine it, it's yours. There is no trade or currency mechanic in the standard game (and I hope it stays that way). SE is a sandbox game with "survival" features. There are more than enough resources available for any player to eventually do whatever they want. It's really not that hard to stay alive long enough to find a resource the character needs to survive (ice). All of the resources are arbitrary. We have discussed in the past the availability of ore on planets vs asteroids/moons and Keen has done some strange things to try to make everyone happy, including having asteroids inside the gravity well of planets to make it easier for players to get the stuff that was purposely made scarce on the planets. That's really not such a big step away from just having the stuff on the planet. My personal observation is that it takes the average new player about 100 hours of playing to become "established". Keen has stated that they are going for a goal of stable server performance for 32 players all doing whatever they want (within reason ;)). In all honesty I can't see player #32 getting screwed by the other 31 players because he can't find some organic matter to stay alive even after being able to play three or four sun rotations without eating. Not in the standard game. In a modded game, maybe, but that would be because they wanted it that way.

    I'm guessing I missed the point. Forgive me. I'm old.

    If they're buttermilk flapjacks riddled with fresh blueberries and smothered with butter and homemade birch syrup, count me in.
     
  12. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    Cite your source please because I have a quote from Marek saying:

    "Our current target is: simspeed 1.0 under the assumption of 16 players and 100,000 PCUs per server, on survival, on minimal HW (on client), and server hardware 3.5 GHz, 3 cores, 6 GB RAM."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/8ukz8x/we_are_the_developers_of_space_engineers/
     
  13. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    In all honesty I can't see player #16 getting screwed by the other 15 players because he can't find some organic matter to stay alive even after being able to play three or four sun rotations without eating. Not in the standard game. In a modded game, maybe, but that would be because they wanted it that way.
     
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  14. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    I think I wrote it slightly wrong there.

    Either way, I am not talking about competitive resources. I am talking about just starting out the game, you fiddle around to get your new ship in order, and because of a few physics bugs you get crushed by the small ship you are building a few times... You are now out of Bio-material or what ever, and next time you go out to hand-drill some uranium to keep your stuff on, the rocks bug out and you die, you get to the respawn screen and.... you have to start over.

    It is a chore mechanic, it is a resource which will be spent very inconsistently, and it is a resource that can completely and utterly screw you if you don't find it in time. What about people living in space? Are there going to be "bio-material" on rocks in space? What about moons? Do you have to stock up heavily on it, and if you are an established player with decent ships, stocking up on it is no problem, it is essentially a non-issue, unless bio-material is only in certain places. This is an entire stop gap for continuing to play. Notice how most materials are everywhere, so there is never a really big "stop gap" to playing, except maybe ice for Hydrogen to escape the planet. Gotta do some Hydrogen fuel economy until you get platinum if you don't like fuel, but you still don't HAVE to use that consumable. You are also not forced to use Uranium, despite it often being the best option, you are still not forced.

    If anything, at least trade, is something that should have a reason to be done, then some resource for dye's only found on planets could be a method (To paint ship, need dye). It is not required, it is purely aesthetic, it has no other effect on gameplay, but people would want it. Now with bio-material, you are probably still not going to be seeing a lot of trading, you will just see someone load up on a lot of it once in a while, and just ignore the rest of the world either way. Even if it is out of its way. Someone established will also die less than a new player, so they'll also need less bio-material.

    I just don't see it as a fun mechanic, in the same way I don't see food in ARK to be interesting at all. It would be a busy work mechanic, that has to be made and balanced with everyone from the weakest of players to the best of players in mind, leading for it to MAYBE be a challenge for really weak players, but anyone semi-competent it will be so trivial that it will feel like a mechanic literally added to annoy.

    EDIT: Basically, a mechanic so trivial it is just a slightly bit more added busy work for no real gain is not really going to be fun, it adds complexity without really adding depth. Like what GAME MECHANICALLY does bio-material requirement for med bays add?
     
  15. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    This argument could be made for oxygen, mining and refining. <sarcasm> Why don't we all build in creative and just forget about the survival game totally </sarcasm>

    The survival mode has the mechanic in it's name: to survive. If medbays mean unlimited lives and life resources then what's the point really? Because of this, currently anything you do in survival is an inevitable success given enough time. There should be a real threat of failure to make the game a challenge. A consumable type medbay would also prevent the tactic of throwing an unlimited supply of grinder armed clones at an installation for the win.

    As for the novice vs. expert arguments:
    First, as it stands the game is so easy that you go from newb to l33t very quickly. This will happen even faster for future newbies because bugs won't be feeding them misleading information as to what's wrong. Regardless, things hindering novices more than experts is just the way things work.
    Second, adding complexity is what would make the survival game continue to be interesting. To argue that these mechanics are too complex is to say that that food and consumable charging for a new life are concepts too difficult for new gamers to learn. To argue that in endgame it's tedious because you already have unlimited resources is to tell me you're playing the game too long, you've won already.

    And finally, noone is saying this stuff should be mandatory elements of the vanilla game. Don't want something? There's a checkbox for that.
     
  16. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    Oxygen was added for immersion, mining is a core mechanic, refining is an extension of that core mechanic.
    So no, it could not. What bio-material is, is more what food is to ARK. A completely unnecessary busy work that applies near zero challenge to the game. While mining would be more similar to having dinosaurs in ARK.

    It wasn't meant to be called survival in the first place, and it was always meant to be a slower version of creative where you had to get your resources yourself, so no, this argument does not hold water. It is also just a name either way to give an idea of what goes on, and with or without bio-material doesn't change the fact that you are still "surviving". If YOU have a problem with everything being an inevitable success, then you should also hate your own biomaterial idea, because if you get past the early game, BOOM! DONE!!! No more being afraid because you have no real failure state again.

    Depends on the price, but I guess, but even then doesn't fix much. All you have to do is take heavy armor blocks at full speed and you get better, and that is not that much more expensive than even building a med bay.

    You have obviously not seen some people play SE, that even after half a year still builds boxes with thrusters... Still have a poor understanding of mechanics, etc. If they have trouble surviving then Keen failed at making a game to appeal to them. The thing here is still, you have to make sure that most if not everyone will be capable of playing the game. If you make getting "bio-material" to hard, you end up losing all the players at the bottom end, if it is to easy, you end up having as I mentioned, an annoying busywork mechanic that doesn't really add anything to the core aspects of the game.

    No, what you want to add to any game if anything (and not all game wants or need this) is DEPTH. Complexity != Depth. I keep mentioning ARK. There is no real added depth by adding water requirement, it is extremely abundant everywhere, just requires you to use an inventory spot, and just makes you have busy work to go to a water source once every like 30 minutes.

    Now you take a look at food, which is even worse. Food is so abundant it is 100% a non-issue. The only reason you'd die of starvation is because food is so abundant you stop thinking about it completely and you forgot to pick up some like 30 minutes ago.

    THESE are not depth, they are incredibly boring busy work that literally takes away from the games core aspect of hunting, taming and killing dinos as well as Tribal building and PvP. It is a silly uninteresting mechanic that helps NOTHING in the game, adds nothing except making everyone believe that food and water is super important for "Survival" games. For a game like Don't Starve, starvation is an actual hazard, it is part of the game mechanics, and an actual part of the gameplay, not just some busy work you do every 30 minutes.

    Starbound has food as well, and it adds really nothing to the game, all it does is make you every couple of hours go out and kill some enemies with a bow. It does add more than "bio-material" for medbays, it at least adds an entire farming mechanic, but that is still slightly silly. The farming mechanic works even if food requirement is disabled, since cooked food gives buffs. Now we started talking about a mechanic that actually adds something to a game.

    This argument has been used for the past 2 years so many times, and I keep saying: That is NOT a solution. That is as valid as (and people hate this one) saying: "But there is a mod for it!". If we added all the features people used this argument for, we would have a silly game where just starting a new game will be most of your playtime, because there'd be pages of pages of checkboxes.

    No, if a feature like this got added, it should be added, and it should require mods to remove. I disagree with the insane amount of checkboxes we got right now, but most of them I can agree on, especially Oxygen (which was only added as an option because of performance, not because of mechanics) and the others like stations requiring ground, etc.

    Some of them are specifically for creative, like indestructible ground and indestructible grids.

    Either way, "Muh checkbox" is not an argument that should be used for any feature at all, the feature has to be good enough to be added in the first place, it has to be useful for a majority of players, otherwise it should just not be there and let mods handle it.
     
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  17. Smokki Trainee Engineer

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    The survival update needs few more organic enemies on the ground and maybe on the air, with a better spawning mechanic than the constant waves, maybe something like a spawner block, which could be placed and configured in creative mode.

    Even without new enemy types, spawner block would add so much more life to the game and open up whole new world of options for scenario makers.
     
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  18. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

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    *sigh* it doesn't matter what Space Engineers was this is the first line of the description of Space Engineers on the official website:

    Survival and Exploration are just a part of the game now as engineering and construction. "Leave it to mods" is not an answer, mods break after updates to the base game, mod authors leave the game so mods do not get updated etc and will continue to do so after the game is released that is the nature of modding.
     
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  19. Riasrock Trainee Engineer

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    I fully agree with sioxernic.

    I'm not sure why so many players want this survival aspects. I know that adding food, sleep and other stuff make the game more realistic. But its not worth it. For me its like wasting time.

    But i would be glad to see weather mechanics, like storm, wind. It should affect on ship manuveruability, like some turbulance in entering to planet atmosphere. If you have ship that look like square 10x10 it cannot exit earth for example. It would be very interesting. This game is about building, and this kind of changes can make it more requiring.

    But, SE is already very complicated for new players, and i fully understand that it will not gonna happen, couse of optimization and an enourmous time for devs to develop this. But my biggest insufficiency for this game is about that, there is no point to play in SE if you are in late game.
    I know this is a sandbox and you can do "everything". But what is that everything in SE? Building, mining, fighting with npc. There is no bigger sense to build and mining, except of doing it for creativity. From my perspective after making multiplayer ok, they should turn attention to give players reason to visit earth, asteroids, fight with npc. For example, if npc (pirates, spiders) could not spawn at you, but have there own life, they can build in real time bases and have some AI more advance than "charge".

    It would be interesting. But i know thats too many things, and not everybody can be satisfied. At this stage of the game, SE is about building and from begining the topic was presented like that. Nothing more, nothing less.
     
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  20. polochom Trainee Engineer

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    Personally I dont get the vision of Keen because an engineer build something to solve a problem. The survival mode offers very few problems to solve and objectives to accomplish and I think that with a few ingame tools and objectives SE can offer a greater depth and motivation for players. For example: 1.start in a planet without any ship or very few resources 2. You dont have the ability to build everything -> you need to find/dismantle a block to have the knowledge to build it again 3. Mission goals - go to planet B and C and retrieve object B and C 4. Like some one said before remove the dark terrain as mining resources - you will need a geo probe or scanner. I dont play SE for more than a year but I steal have hope to return after that "survival update"... cheers everyone.
     
  21. Dax23333 Junior Engineer

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    If a hunger system was going to be added, what (for the game mechanics, not just to say we have hunger) would it be wanted to add? Couple of main purposes for food systems I have seen, One is to encourage exploration. There is a vast world out there, and you're going to want to explore it to find some vegetable that you don't have at base so you can farm it. But in the end, it is there to make you go explore for better food items. This in turn encourages building ships to go and get it, and whatever infrastructure is needed to farm them. Another fairly typical purpose is to provide healing while not being vital for survival in itself, you could go without food forever but would need to eat to heal. Potentially can also provide buffs but this is often filled by some kind of potion item that would not really fit in SE at all.

    Space engineers currently lacks in both to some extent. Recources are distributed randomly so you will usually find some of everything you need nearby - some incentive to explore the rest of the planet would be good. It also does not have any kind of portable health regenerating item, bar natural regeneration which can be either on or off with the checkbox. Say it was off, and then suddenly health regenerating food becomes useful in combat and something that players would want to have, at least in small quantities.

    What would the generic organic material > cooking block > food > eat food or die acheive? I don't see how it'd add much. If the recource was a neccecity (like all other recources in the game with the arguable exceptions of platinum and uranium) then it'd have to be basically everywhere else you'd end up running about for ages until you starved to death. Even space, or you'd kill the space only game completly. If it is everywhere it does not encourage exploration, and unless it also had some other things that it affected it does not add to combat either.

    So... to add depth to gameplay it'd need to be more. I quite like the idea of making it not needed for survival (suit recycling body waste into 'food') but benificial if you have it, with different foods providing character buffs such as healing over time, increased building speed etc. With that you do not kill space only games by starvation, but planets (which contain food) now also have a useful purpose to them. If you had a variety of different food items on each planet, each found in the different enviroments, then you also encourage exploration of the planets themselves. Say you'd have apples in forests, grain in grasslands, cactus fruit in deserts and some root plant in snowy areas. Each might do a different thing, at least slightly. You'd then be encouraged to go to these places to get them. On the alien planet you could go a bit mad and have weird alien foods that do weird alien things and have this be the powerful character buffs typically given by potions in other games.

    People would probably want to farm these too so they can take them to space. I imagine some kind of greenhouse block would be needed for this, which you would provide with air, ice and (artificial?) gravity and it'd slowly grow the plants you put in it.

    While something like this would be good, and add a fair bit to the game, I don't think it would be reasonable to expect. It really is a lot of work to do it, needing multiple models, the existance of a character buff system (currently non existant), the existance of harvestable plant recources (currently non existant), some tool to harvest the plants unless you're going to use the grinder or just loot them, multiple models for the farming block if it is going to display what is growing in it (if it did not do this I think that would be pretty bad to be honest).
     
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  22. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    This is it here: you don't think hunger/food is immersive. I'm going to assume because you've never gone without food in your life. The three critical aspects taught for long term survival IRL? Shelter, Water/Food, Fire (for space air would obviously be added). Your suit takes care of Shelter, and Fire is for safety, and psychology. This leaves..... Food/dealing with hunger. Needing food is as much an immersion/depth issue as needing to breathe. The depth is in the difficulties it creates. 'Hey I want to build a colony on the Moon! What do I need to bring with me? Nothing, as there's ice on the Moon. Gee why did NASA have so many problems?".

    <Sarcasm> Really, you're arguing for the removal of oxygen. This adds 'no depth' either (which I've come to realize means 'it is something you think you do not like'). You could delete oxygen entirely and say the suit reclaims it from exhaled CO2. While we're at it, the suit shouldn't need power. Reflective solar strips build up enough power to keep the suit running indefinitely. Oh, and why does the suit need hydrogen when you could just put ions on that bad boy and fly forever. </sarcasm>

    Somehow you also got the impression that I think food sources should be everywhere. I don't. The challenge food brings is exactly because it isn't everywhere. Same with Oxygen. Actually more so because oxygen is everywhere if you build a farm block.

    1) in survival, wasting resources to build pretty is ill advised, especially in pvp. I'd argue they understand the mechanics better than you do.
    2) They still play after half a year because of the survival mechanics, not in spite of it.

    Food is not a core mechanic, so it shouldn't be one? This is your argument in a nutshell. You think you're right so you're right. Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

    I agree, but I also think food mechanics can be good enough to add. You are dismissing it out of hand because you don't see the possibilities.

    Here's the difference between you and I. I'm willing to concede not everyone shares my grand vision, and should not be forced to live it. Particularly when it's something that requires their interest to play it in the first place. I also don't use contradictory logic like "saying 'because mods' is invalid... use mods to fix"

    In a nutshell: Food/hunger should be added for realism/immersion's sake, but it needs to be done well to avoid tedium.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
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  23. zachusaman Trainee Engineer

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    Current version of SE is designed to be an engineering game, it's about the machinery you build with your hands (or automate via Projectors). It's about solving problems using engineering ingenuity.

    This is the vision for the game we came up with 5 years ago and it hasn't changed: http://www.spaceengineersgame.com/about.html

    Therefore for this version of SE we don't plan to extend the survival with food, sleeping, etc - in other words, things that are not directly related to engineering.

    Saying this, there's no reason why these mechanics can't be added in the future version. I am also sure there are mods that add them.

    Our main goal these days is to finish the game to a solid state, where it's polished, bug free, optimized, and hassles to play.

    However, we plan to touch the Survival after this MP update. But don't wanna spoil any surprises :)

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/8ukz8x/we_are_the_developers_of_space_engineers/
     
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  24. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,355
    I love playing in survival mode, and the few times I've played in creative mode were only to check out a design concept (e.g., will this particular drill system work?). Almost everything that I've built has been assembled piece-by-piece in survival mode.

    I especially like workshop scenarios because I like having an objective...a goal...for existing and building something. I remember early on playing through the canned scenarios and, when finished, saying, "Is this all there is?" Scenario - Mars Lone Survival and Escape from Mars are a couple great scenarios (I've been through them several times), and they inspired me to try to build my own. Without scripts and mods, something I have yet to dive into, my scenarios are pretty limited. But they give you a reason for surviving. As Gunny Highway said in the movie Heartbreak Ridge, "Adapt, Improvise, Overcome!" Oh, and another great workshop example is Extreme Hardcore Survival Start - Alien Planet w/ Hunger & Thirst support (DEV) because it forces you to really think hard about resource management. Those are fun challenges, especially when nasty critters are nipping at your heels!

    For awhile, before I started playing some "hardcore" survival workshops that I found, I would drop myself somewhere in empty space with only the three basic tools. To me, that was hardcore survival. But I found it all too easy to fly toward a pirate outpost or station, lure out a drone, and bitch-slap it into submission for its parts (I learned how to overcome all the drones with a basic grinder). In short order I'd have a power supply and an O2/H2 generator. Soon thereafter (at least, before my oxygen ran out) I'd have an assembler built, decompose some metal grids and reactor components, and build an oxygen and hydrogen bottle. And that was that. Everything beyond that point was simply empire building.

    So, yeah, the reason I like Space Engineers is the challenge of surviving. I need to dust of my programming books and jump into scripts and mods so I can build some really good stuff that maybe others with similar interests would enjoy playing.

    (If anyone's interested, here are the two survival scenarios that I've created:

    1. Survive Klendathu & Get Back Home! https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1380828712
    2. Alien Artifact Retrieval_v2 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1418589935

    Both of these workshops tend toward the minimalist side when it comes to mods. I try to make do with stock components for the greatest forward compatibility.)
     
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  25. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    452
    For me it's all about cooking vittles on the campfire.

    [​IMG]

    But yeah, I think they said something about finishing the scenario editor at one point. No idea if that's changed, but I'd like to see it too.
     
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  26. zachusaman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    65
    The problem I see is that dying is way too easy and you are very limited in, not dying. Given that we are dealing with aerodynamics, jetpacking around at 100m/s and big things it goes to figure that death is usually the response but there should be some sort of armor, or ramping up to dying, or at least medpacks, batteries and other resources that focus on the engineer. Requiring food and whatnot is something previously mentioned in the AMA is not something they are working on which is fine since these things tend to end up being a tedious experience and given how space engineers works these things would be quickly delegated to a factory mass producing it.
     
  27. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,695
    The concept isn't that complicated. But the devil is in the details. Where will food come from? Will you be able to acquire food without planets? Should you be able to? How will it be balanced? Coding it might not be that difficult; but getting it right, testing it, and refining it will take a decent amount of time. It reminds me of people who ask for an e-commerce button on their website. It's just a button to purchase the product. But the back-end behind that button is a lot more significant. Maybe it's a lot simpler than I imagine. That would be great. But nothing is ever simple when dealing with a million lines of code.
    --- Automerge ---
    I'd like there to be a cost with dying and respawning. If respawning required having some sort of consumable available and conveyored/stored in the medical room, then it would justify having a cryo-chamber and make players more cautious about getting killed. In the default vanilla game... you die... and then get free stuff... kind of the opposite of how it should work IMO.
     
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  28. Calaban Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    888
    Jeez can we just put food out to pasture already (see what I did there?)

    Its like drowning in semantics and filtered versions of perspective all over again. And who needs that
     
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  29. sioxernic Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,535
    God... I even used ARK as an example here a ton of times.

    You disagrfee, I heavily disagree with you, let's just leave it at that.

    Also, if you want to argue, then argue against my positions, NOT a strawman you built up of me, and therefor I just bow out of this conversation before you start yelling at me.
     
  30. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    400
    You are a day late, that "not for this version" is correct, but that is BEFORE the survival update. The multiplayer update currently in testing has rightfully taken priority since it is the main goal to finish the game to a solid state. The aim of this thread is expectations for an upcoming game update, NOT whether or not you think survival should be in SE.
     
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