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What Mods would you like to see Vanilla?

Discussion in 'General' started by WraithLeader1, Jan 19, 2019.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,510
    Keen would have to recreate all of them since they're not actually armor (if this is the mod I think it is)... No polygon optimization support. So not likely to happen. I spoke to someone... Kreeg I think? Who has actually made a proper armor mod?

    I tried to log into Steam to find the mod in question, but it's denying me right now. I'll probably forget this before long :p I'm pretty sure it was Kreeg.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  2. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,358
    Do you mean this one? Reinforced Armor
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,510
    Yes, thank you, that one. That is a real armor mod - the only one I know of at least.
     
  4. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,358
    I presume this "polygon optimization support" is something that has to be incorporated at the block model creation stage with the 3d modelling software - and without the original source files could not be added to any existing block mod ?
     
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  5. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,510
    Yes and no. Armor models are special, they consist of multiple parts (i.e. multiple models), where some are removed by the game engine depending on their placements. There's also bones for the deformation part of armor. Kreeg could probably tell you better than I can, I just know this conceptually :p but in short, the entire modelling process is different from entity blocks, which is why they'd need to be recreated. I think there's two reasons why this hasn't been done by modders before: It's more difficult, requiring more work per block - likely error prone if not done right, especially the bone part. I also suspect lots of people don't even realize that there's a difference. Kreeg deserves a lot of credit, imo, for sticking to it and doing this "right".
     
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  6. zachusaman Trainee Engineer

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    67
    ...None

    I quite like how things are now where we have the basics in the game and we are free to mod as much or as little as we want. This allows Keens to work on the game as a whole instead of having to worry about all these blocks and whatnot working with each update, and trying to balance them based on their opinions. Not only that but I have much more faith in the community as a whole in terms of updating and balancing in a timely manner compared to Keen, not that their bad (or great) at this but the community is just so much better at focusing on singular small projects, also things like legality can go out the window with mods, whereas Keen would have to do licensing or other boring business things to support mods like Warhammer 40k skins.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,510
    Except as far as I'm concerned, we don't. We don't even have the simplest decorative blocks, we can't build something that looks like it can be lived in or used by humans over time, even if it's just... well, the basics.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  8. zachusaman Trainee Engineer

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    67
    I think the airtightness is going to your head! :p

    On a serious note though, we can build ships, bases, fight, mine, etc and while it isnt fancy and you aren't exactly spoiled for choices in some aspects, what do you think is absolutely critical that's lacking in the game?

    I kind of like how TF2 handles these things but again, it adds to the official teams workload and thats my big concern with adding mods. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather have Keen make and maintain the tools, and let us do the building.
     
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  9. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,510
    How can I create a space station which seems like it can hold human life without as much as a table? How can I create a long-term discovery space ship where the only place people have to sleep are in cryogenic storage? All I've been asking for are the bare necessities in creating a world that at least looks like it could be alive. I can't do that.

    I don't use mods because I, as opposed to you, feel that I should not have to rely on amateur content for a game I've paid for.

    [Edit to avoid misunderstanding: I mean amateur as in not professional/paid work, I don't mean bad work or untalented work. There are lots of really talented modders out there. That's not the point.]
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 5
  10. zachusaman Trainee Engineer

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    67
    Hm, that's very true and I understand your reasoning, and agree with it to a point. I suppose it wouldn't be too hard for Keen to add some decorative blocks to the game if they wanted to, but look at it this way.

    Do you need Keen to take the time out of their schedule to make a bed model, and what if you didn't like the look of it? The true beauty of the modding community is that an amateur CAN make a bed in this game and you can easily use it too. A quick search of "bed" on the space engineers workshop showed 35 results (about 25 or so were actually "beds") ranging from wood textured ones to basic cots to round leather ones. You don't need to rely on Keen to make you a bed when the community is more than happy to do it for you.

    Perhaps now that Space Engineer's is leaving early access they will focus more on these "fluff" things, but only time will tell. Personally I'd rather have Keen focus on getting NPC related things out the door, the possibilities that would unlock is truly endless and it's a shame that this wasn't part of the survival update (unless they prove me wrong tomorrow!)
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  11. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,510
    Yes. Yes, I do. What if I go onto a server which don't have that bed mod on, the one I selected to make sure it fits with the graphical style of SE, but one of the other which I don't feel fit at all - like the wood textured ones? What if that modder rage-quits and removes the bed or table I've used for all of my builds? Then what?

    I don't care if modders can do it. Modding is to add alternatives, not finish the game.

    Do you really think their artists taking a little time making a few basic models like this will affect your "NPC related things" much? I don't. Their artists don't code, their coders don't model. The "NPC related things" would be more coding than modelling, I suspect.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  12. ObjectZero Apprentice Engineer

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    361
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,510
  14. ObjectZero Apprentice Engineer

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    361
    Same, but I guess that's the reason we're posting on this Topic. Cause we'd like to see more blocks added.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,510
    Exactly.
     
  16. vadersson Trainee Engineer

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    78
    It would be nice to have some furniture appropriate to the game astetic. But I also expect it would take more than we realize. Keen has been using passageway blocks on thier side for sleeping areas BTW. Kind of cool. But I agree, some more "utilitarian" itrmi would be nice

    My last base has 4 flight seats around a light armor half slab and looked pretty good.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. zachusaman Trainee Engineer

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    67
    I suppose you could reach out to the server admins and ask them to use the modpacks, considering how trivial decorations are to the game I doubt they would add any performance issues. I'm curious that if a modder does rage quit and deletes their mods would Steam remove it from your computer? These are both downsides to modding and yes I don't really have a good answer for you on these.

    In regards to the effort required I don't think it would be a monumental task by any means, but Keen would have to animate things such as tables and chairs and whatnot to add to the game, and it's another thing to worry about. Plus, on a personal level I don't want my game being bogged down in size because there's an Ikeas worth of furniture being added to the game.

    Finally, a thought that occurred to me is that perhaps, in regards to mods, Keen could have a sort of "swap" system in place that would prevent "most" compatibility issues by swapping blocks as necessary, IE you click on cryochamber and a list pops up of all blocks you have installed that fit as a cryochamber such as beds, etc. This way if you do encounter a server without the mods you're using at least your ship isn't full of blank spots. In my opinion Keen added the cryochamber as your "bed" and if you don't like that, then modding is something you can look into, though there being no tables is a bit silly, but they do have chairs which aren't great for a lounge, they do exist.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,510
    Yes, it does. This was the reason I started disliking mods in the first place, I had hell trying to maintain a server with a significant user number as mods came and went, and ruined builds. Guess who got the blame.

    You'll need an engineer pose for some of these blocks, sure (not an animation, just a pose, like the chairs and control stations) but still, that's an artist's job, not a coder.

    I'm not asking for an Ikea's worth of furniture, that is the job of modders. Just a basic set so I can make my worlds without relying on 3rd party stuff... until I choose to. Besides, who cares about another few megabytes? As opposed to mods, who gets checked constantly, and prevents you from playing offline, once the new models are downloaded, they're down. Disk space is cheap these days.

    No, the cryochamber was added specifically so you had somewhere to store your inventory when you logged off a server, before they finally fixed that problem properly not too long ago. They actually had a proper function once. You used to just lose everything in your player inventory instantly when logging off before.

    Mods are great. But games shouldn't require them to feel completed, that's just plain wrong. That means the game isn't completed. You can't change my mind on this, because I don't want to change my mind on this :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,933
    You BETTER NOT change your mind on this :woot:

    Here's the rub. I've subscribed to around five hundred mods (and counting ;)). I don't actually use all of them. There are about three hundred "core mods" that I will install in a fresh world, but even then I don't use them all. Out of the ones that actually make it into a session, there are even fewer that I would like to see made standard. Unlike a lot of people, I don't think every cool mod should be made standard.

    There are two reasons the standard set should be extended. The first reason is that there are not enough kinds of blocks in the current standard set to make believable builds. Keen's method of play involved making ships and stations that looked cool on the outside, but there was never any intention to go inside anything. You just needed to have a cockpit somewhere in your ship for your character to park and then you could operate it third person. If you have ever played or even seen Miner Wars you would understand. In THAT game you WERE the ship. Remember, SE was originally a single-player game and, honestly, I can see where the idea of building out the interior of a ship would seem unnecessary. However, it turns out that the majority of us want our builds to look cool on the outside AND the inside. It was a strange concept for Keen's staff but Modders picked up on it right away. When it comes to armor block variants, I don't believe Keen's art style called for anything beyond a 1x2 block. I can't think of any reason other than, as Malware said, armor blocks are complicated.

    The second reason to extend the standard set of blocks is that once Keen makes a block that works it becomes the basis for mods. As a Modder (this is conjecture. I am NOT a Modder), if I can successfully alter a Keen block, there's an excellent chance that mod will work. When air became a thing, Keen made and "air vent" that only worked if it was attached to a conveyor port, which meant that the vent took up precious space inside your build. A Modder said, "Why can't the air vent BE the conveyor port?" and we got the Conveyor Air Vent mod, which many, including myself, would like to see standard because we value interior space. it's something every build that manages air should have, and that's why it needs to be standard.

    There is an unofficial third reason to extend the standard block set. The idea of placing a passage block on it's side and calling it a bunk is just lame. Clever, but lame. Using blocks meant for one thing to represent something else is cool until you become familiar with all the blocks. Now when I see a passage block on its side I don't see a bunk. I see a passage block on it's side. For God's sake, Keen, when someone turns a passage block on its side and calls it a bunk, THAT'S BECAUSE THEY WANT A BUNK. Keen needs to go through all the pure-vanilla blueprints in the workshop and note all the things people made from armor blocks so they could have believable interiors, and then provide actual blocks. Tables, counters, sinks, toilets, beds, kitchen stuff, medical room stuff (beyond medbays which are just spawn points), consoles, control panels, showers... read the thread. I'd like to think this is where future updates are headed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  20. Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    1,170
    As someone that has used more passage blocks as bunks or beds than as actual passage blocks I would like to give @Stardriver907 a goddamn medal for this post
     
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  21. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    343
    I had taken a bit of time away from the game but I found this discussion interesting so I figured I would add my 2 cents to the pile.

    If we're talking mods I would like to see made vanilla I would say a shield mod for those of us that like a bit more of a sci-fi element to our game. This would be one of those things that folks could turn on or off in settings since some folks like shields and some don't. Preferably this one or one as close to it as possible: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484504816&searchtext=energy+shield

    After the shields I would love to see a long range sensor type of mod made vanilla. Would give me a reason to use the sensor block more often than I do and give another ship system to consider perhaps.

    Next I would love to see a computer mod type of block depending on what happens with the programmable block. Even if it's just decorative or whatever. I like having a few of them on my ships if but for no other reason than to simulate computer cores. Let's also not forget smaller versions of hydrogen tanks. I thought someone said that was considered at one time or another but I may not be remembering that correctly. Either way would be interesting to see.

    A big utility one I would like to see is a small grid version of the jump drive. i just like the idea of having the ability even if it wouldn't go quite as far as a larger one.

    This last one is more of a nit pick, but would still love to see something get made vanilla that lets us adjust the fuel efficiency of the various thrusters. I've always hated how quickly hydrogen thrusters seem to piss their fuel. I get why it's that way just burns it way too fast for my tastes.

    For a "it would be fun but would never happen" type of mod, I would like to see the Stargate mod made vanilla. It'll never happen but I could definitely see some comedy going on if it did become a reality.
     
  22. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,933
    There are and have been a number of shield mods. Every one was hailed as a "must-be-made-vanilla" item when it was published, and now they languish in the workshop basement.

    I've seen many a server touting shields soon announce that the shields will be removed. The reason is that shields were invented for theater and work great in movies and tv shows, but in practice in a game like SE they are essentially useless (in fact, in movies and tv they are essentially useless).

    In your single player game against Space Pirates that don't have shields yeah, shields are cool. In any multiplayer scenario where both sides by default have shields, there's no advantage to having them, only a disadvantage for not having them. No point in having a toggle because if they are available at all everyone will toggle them on, pretty much like air, and we're back to having to have one because everyone else in the game will. Given the time period the game is set in, shields will not be a thing, so Keen deliberately chose to not include them.

    Players that really think they're a good idea can download a mod, it's quick and free, and find out once and for all if they are correct.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. Timuroslav Apprentice Engineer

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    172
    Personally, I'd like to see food and tables. It adds to the hydroponics in space feel. Also it would make survival a more realisticish threat.

    Shields and nanites, are great mods but it feels like lazy science. Metallic needs-to be-welded shield plating I would love.

    Id also like to see some ballistic weapon parts. Not necessarily full on premade weapons.
     
  24. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    343
    The thread asked, I simply stated something I would like to see. If it happens it happens, if not then oh well.

    As to whether they would be a wise choice for a multiplayer server or not, that would be up to the individual server owners/users. Simply because someone like myself and my crew may opt to use them on our server, would not require anyone else to utilize them on their own servers. Prime example for me is the Rotor block and Laser Antenna. Although they're great blocks, up to this point I usually elected not to use them as I've yet to find a build of mine I thought warranted their inclusion. For folks like me that typically don't use them I don't have to, and for folks that like them, they are free to use them. It's the same deal with the meteor showers, oxygen, airtightness, spiders, wolves, or any other feature like those in the options. If folks want to use them they can, otherwise they can leave them off. It's up to the individual server users/owners to make that choice.

    Your analogy in regards to their effects in SE suggests to me an unbalanced mod. We can certainly debate which mods we consider as balanced and which one's aren't. A balanced shield mod would not make you invincible, but it would at least buy you a bit of extra time and durability to hopefully get through a firefight. It would be no different than adding extra armor plating to a ship, the plating will not make you invincible but it will at least buy you some extra time and durability. The difference would be in how each one of them grants you that extra durability and survival. With the extra armoring, it would provide this extra durability via the presence of extra physical blocks present on the ship. The extra blocks would provide durability at the cost of having to deal with extra weight depending on much extra armoring you used. Shields would provide the extra durability by extending a temporary buff of sorts to the other blocks of the ship. Although they take far fewer blocks to setup, they are a much more significant drain on the power systems, especially the more shields you actually place on a ship. If the shield generator(s) become disabled this buff ceases for the entire ship, thus lending straight armor plating a slight edge.

    If they would be around or not in the time of SE is debatable depending on what kind of sci-fi future one subscribes to. In some sci-fi type franchises we would have access to even greater tech, and in some we don't. If one thinks they're not a good fit for SE, that's at least a fair debate that can be had. Though I have never understood why some folks are so opposed to at least having the option. Those that want them could use them and those that don't wouldn't have to. What I do on my server has no bearing, and should never have any bearing in how or what someone else decides to use on their own server and vice versa.

    To each their own I suppose.
     
  25. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,933
    It already is. Individual server owner/users can use a mod of their choice (there are many). Making it vanilla does not change that. This is not the reason shields are not vanilla.

    In a game like SE, "balancing" is not the issue. I understand people want an invisible extra layer of armor that doesn't carry the weight penalty so their ships stay nimble. I get that. Keen gets that. That is not the reason shields are not vanilla.

    It does not matter what kind of sci-fi future I subscribe to. The Developer, Keen Software House, has subscribed to a sci-fi future that takes place roughly 60 years from today (2077, in fact, after a Second Great Space Race in 2029). That's the future the developer put the game in, and it is not debatable. There will be no off-the-shelf shields suitable for combat and in regular use in 2077. That is why shields are not vanilla.

    Keen does not prohibit mods. If you subscribe to a different kind of sci-fi future, you will need to subscribe to a mod.
     
  26. Weaver1978 Trainee Engineer

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    1
    Quality of life that keep the vanilla feel.
    Light block from improvements (access panels on lights)
    Azimuth open cockpit
    HUD compass
    rover cockpit
    conveyor air vent
    paint gun
    rotary airlock
     
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