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WHAT'S THE POINT IN PLAYING WITH TROLLS AROUND........

Discussion in 'General' started by Lord Wraith, May 28, 2019.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Lord Wraith Apprentice Engineer

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    105
    And once again, russian players are coming onto uk servers, not to play but to cause grief, just spent the better part of a week building a ship to travel around in and within 5 secs it was total destroyed by a player simply crashing a respawn ship into it from space, no interest in playing the game he is just grabbing respawn ships and crashing them into peoples bases and ships, getting to the point of what is the use of playing when all that happens is someone just comes along and wipes you out and then boast about it in the chat.....
     
  2. Cyber Cheese Apprentice Engineer

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    431
    Why not switch to a server that doesn't make those tactics so easy? Check out a privately hosted server instead. What kind of gameplay do you want?
     
  3. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,360
    Be like me: Don't. Play. Multiplayer.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Cyber Cheese Apprentice Engineer

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    431
    Spaceman Spiff, please stop telling people not to play with others. That is not productive advice. I have been playing multiplayer for about 90% of my time in SE, and I haven't been rammed by a spawn ship since 2014.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,360
    Never! I'll never stop!

    (But, like it or not, you've got to admit that's it's a solution.)
     
  6. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,510
    Trolls will always be a thing on any public server. It's unavoidable and it's a battle that cannot be won.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Lord Wraith Apprentice Engineer

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    105
    While i understand that playing on a server you or your friends have rented, that's is not the point i'm trying to get across, i have made many friends from around the world since i started playing SE, and even in MP this has carried through, however, in the last few months, is seem that the UK servers that Keen setup have been plagued by foreign (namley russian) players coming onto the servers just to cause as much trouble as possible. They seem intent on just destroying everyone's stuff by any means, (which includes using the respawn ships to ram bases and ships), what i'm looking for is ideas from the community to help stop this.............
     
  8. Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    1,170
    in short: there isn't.

    If there is someone hellbend on griefing you cannot stop them short of banning them. And if there are many, as you say, there simply is no way. It's not just an SE problem. And there have been many, many ideas and suggestions on that topic since MP came out.
     
  9. Cetric Junior Engineer

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    778
    Griefers are a major problem in any multiplayer game, especially in MMOs. And true, often they are Russians. Putting any sociocultural aspect in reference to their origin aside, which may earn me a warning by moderator, let me talk in a more general way:
    every server has an admin and hopefully a message board. Collect your evidences and present them to server administration with your request to ban them cyberterrorists (cause that is what they are). And I hope there is something like a rule book for the server which does not allow griefing, which you can claim an offense has been committed against. Admins have an interest to keep their server pleasant for all, so if your material is bulletproof, you can expect actions to be taken against them. But expect new ones to come...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Cyber Cheese Apprentice Engineer

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    431
    The solution is for Keen to manage their servers differently, such as in the way some of the more popular private servers do. For example, the server can:
    1) Disable spawn near others, making it nearly impossible to find a careful player's base,
    2) Enable offline protection,
    3) Implement rules against this conduct and have 24/7 admin staff to enforce the rules, or
    4) Make respawn ships small grids.

    Each of these solutions is actually used by real servers that you can play on right now. Why Keen does not use any of them is a mystery, but if you want Keen to change its behavior this is not the appropriate forum. In their wisdom they require you to post here, on a different website, with suggestions.
     
  11. Theurgist Trainee Engineer

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    10
    There IS a way to deal with griefers, but people probably won't like it, and the people it's designed to stop very well may attempt to abuse it to get others banned:

    Make bans on the account level. Then if they HAVE to grief they'll need to buy SE on a new steam account each time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Calaban Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    888
    I can argue that the battle with Trolls can be won.

    I forget where I read it, And seriously doubt I am the first to coin it, but:
    Not a literal mirror, but a metaphorical.. a metaGAME one. Be the nice guy, the White Knight. And take notes on the Trolls. While helping others and being friendly as a general rule, and if you have the skill- Raid the Raiders. Grief the Griefers. Betray the Betrayors. Be Sadistic to the Sadists. Spawn scout the spawn scouters. (Thats the mirror). They just cannot take it. Any outrage they may try to spit out gets caught in their hypocritical teeth. They will still spew words out in frustration, but then comment "Troll tears taste like cupcakes" or something equally ironic.

    As the successes in trolling the Trolls mount up, a reputation is gained. Other regulars know to reach out for help, and to whisper secrets. Soon the GPS of any known troll locations come whispering in from the community of victims or lucky explorers, and the Troll Hunter gets a list of locations handed to him to work with. Thats the community being > trolls, and its a beautiful thing to see.

    And its happening right now. Keen NA #4 :) many a troll have left in frustration. The Hunting has been good.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,510
    Heh.


    I will take one correction, but that's simply because my wording was off.

    Sure, you can win individual battles.

    But you cannot win the war.

    And the big flaw in your argument there? The trolling has already been done at that point. Some poor shmuck has had their hard work destroyed already.
     
  14. Lord Grey Apprentice Engineer

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    339
    Ha, I just got visited by a Troll, crashing his spawn ship into mine. Luckily I had already a drill mounted to the front. Just lost 2 solar panels, the drill, an assembler and the control chair. Had to kill him with the rifle, but got his survival kit killed too. And I could collect what was left of his ship, the whole back portion. A win for me, and he didn't returned.

    Nice thinking, but that doesn't work in a world where you simply can evade the consequences of your doing. You're anonymous on the net, or at least that's what they are thinking. In the real world there is always the risk you get caught, not necessarely by the authorities, but still social condemned (I once scared the shit out of an offensive teen by telling him the address he lifes. But the effort to find this out is too big to do it with every troll that exist out there). But online, you can act recless because it's no real damage and noone is going to sue you (successfully) in real life. So what does people force into an alliance? In my opinion only if they known each other in RL.
     
  15. Calaban Junior Engineer

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    888
    While certainly trolls will still smash things, and damage will certainly be done, the point of my above post was that such Trollish behavior and alliances cannot thrive long term. They cannot take over a server, and make it purely toxic to any new players. Eventually all of their alt account are figured out. Eventually (in the server I frequent) they all get found, and destroyed. Players that may have not gotten along in the past find their hate of Trolls a common theme, and start to wing up in uneasy alliances, whispering to each other to organize a Troll Cave Raid. Its as if a meta Red vs Blue thing is actually emerging.

    Evasion isn't so certain in the game world, while they are reasonably secure in their IRL anonymity... turning off suit antennas to be anonymous in a server doesn't work, once everyone realizes one key thing: K-comms lists nearby players.. whether they are transmitting their ID or not. So the unknown suit flinging blocks at you no longer enjoy anonymity.

    There is a trust issue to be sure, but players being harassed can whisper to other reputable players their gps in a plea for jump-in help/backup/escape, and if a player has just lost his base and knows the raider will spend time looting it... why not broadcast the blown base location that you wont get to keep anyway... in case others may be nearby to catch the Troll and strike?

    These are bigger picture things I see flickering and trying to emerge in the Public server multiplayer environment- the trolls would like everyone to think that everyone raids and no one is safe, and no one can be trusted- that its all total anarchy. But some of us are trying to prove them wrong.
     
  16. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,704
    The one weapon that's effective against griefers and trolls is TIME. The more time it takes them to troll another player, the fewer their numbers. Anything that slows down the cycle of respawning with free-shit near another player is a good thing. Trolls are a fact of life... but some of Keen's recent gameplay decisions plays right into the trolls grubby little hands.
     
  17. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,360
    Banish them to the outer realm!
     
  18. Calaban Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    888
    Another factor that makes Trolls (defined as sadistic players who seek to cause harm in other players for the pleasure of it) quite so successful is partly the victims' fault- that fault being "not adjusting to the new paradigm"- or even not recognizing that the way to play survival in multiplayer has fundamentally changed in recent survival update. Think of it as an "arms race" in adapting to the new mechanics. The Trolls have adapted to the new spawn mechanics, whereas the players still building centralized fixed bases with all of their belongings in them have NOT adapted.

    Put simply- if you make a base like Lone survivor start... its doomed. The new spawn mechanics and Troll adaptation to them has ensured that. Building a centralized base, a "home and heart" in a fixed point- yikes! It is going to be found quickly. Clang help you if that fixed base home also has 100% of the stuff youve spent time and effort on thus far.. as you can see where this is going.

    That is the old way of playing, and where getting "lost in space" was a valid strategy. Simply not true anymore.

    So what is the new way? Its still getting figured out, honestly, but I've been successful and never been found or raided in the server I frequent- and have reached "endgame" where I no longer have to mine or make components. I have stockpiles of enough of everything to last years and rebuild everything 50 times over (the loose definition of "winning survival multiplayer"- in my opinion). so I guess my particular new way actually works a bit.

    Whats my way? well, if I detailed it, the % of Trolls that can read would figure out how to defeat it. ;) Suffice to say- no bases. Replaceable/expendable production ships. "decentralized infrastructure" that uses small size in empty space to remain unseen, and jump drives to link it all together as needed. There simply is no "heart" of my empire to tear out in one fell swoop (that does sound foolish in this light, doesnt it?)

    So, sad to say, Stubbornness to insist on "playing the old way" in this strange new universe is its own punishment... as such stubbornness is essentially wrapping everything up with a ribbon... free for the Trolling.

    But there is hope- the depth of the game as a whole reveals there are dozens of ways to do literally everything, including starting off, mining, building up, and staying safe.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,933
    @Calaban 's solution may not be the best, but it's a good one. After playing SE for about 200 hours I came to the conclusion that fixed bases were a bad idea for a number of reasons. Nearly 9000 hrs later it still seems like a bad idea for a space game.

    I have also observed that players tend to congregate near the initial spawn points so it's not hard for someone to figure out where people might be hiding their bases.

    Try not to build things on a public server that you are not willing to lose. Large ships and stations are primary targets on a survival server because griefers are well aware of the effort and the fact that any size build can be destroyed in seconds.

    It would be nice if online server culture was more proactive against griefing. It seems as if players are ok with griefing if they are not the victim.
     
  20. Lord Grey Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    339
    Or they are too far away to come to help in time...
    --- Automerge ---
    Yesterday I build a whole evening at a capital ship and just wenn I wanted to log off a single astronaut just come by and blow up my whole ship. Don't know how he did it but it only affected the interior, the hull just suffered some deformation. Sadly he also got my small respawn ship with the same trick, even I had 4 Gatlings covering any angle. Don't know how a single Astronaut could inflict so much damage in such short time. I'm back to my own server now. Just wonder if a bug was used or if there is a trick to do such things.
     
  21. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,933
    Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "capitol ship", but I assume you mean a very large build. That describes most of my ships, and if I'm in one of them by myself (which is the usual case since I play SP on my own machine) one other player could easily have their way with it long before I become aware, much less react.

    Any player that has spent any significant time chasing space pirates knows all the weaknesses of automatic defenses, and there are a lot of them. As to the damage a single player could cause, I watched a griefer stream himself taking out a base by himself. His weapon of choice was a hand drill. It was a fully operational asteroid base with fully conveyored automatic defenses (he tunneled his way in from a blind side. That's why he was wielding a hand drill. I guess he thought it was too much trouble to switch to a grinder, or the hand drill was just more satisfying).

    I don't think players that are too far away to help are ok with griefing. What I was getting at specifically was that on a public server where griefing is definitely happening, the first response from every player aware of the problem is not to work together to stop it. Their instinct is to pester the Admin into installing a software solution under threat of moving elsewhere because it's the Admin's problem and it's the Admin's responsibility to provide a solution. This thread makes a pretty good argument that there are no software solutions, at least none that will last. The only solution mentioned that has any hope of actually working seems to be the one that suggests the players solve the problem.

    That's about when the thread died.
     
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