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Where's The Fun?

Discussion in 'General' started by Captain_Brian, Jan 13, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Captain_Brian Apprentice Engineer

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    The only thing I could see that could make this fun would be to be able to control troops and have the game be a sort of first/third person Stronghold Game.

    I really don't see how the game could be much fun without the ability to actually wage war:


    [​IMG]

    Or you'll end up with this:

    [​IMG]



    The fun of Space Engineers is that you can take your base with you, and use it to attack or mine or whatever, whereas in a medieval setting you're stuck in one spot, and have to start over from scratch if you move somewhere else. I just can't see, gameplay-wise, where the fun would be if you're just a single guy building some giant castle in the middle of nowhere, or a single guy attacking someone else's castle by themselves.

    In a Medieval setting without troops, you build a giant castle, and people can just ignore you. You can't do anything about that, other than abandon your castle and go somewhere else. If you had troops, you then become a threat, and being able to deploy/defend against larger armies becomes the motivation to build bigger castles.

    I'm not saying the game won't be fun, (I LOVE castlebuilding in Stronghold), I'm just having trouble seeing where it is.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2015
  2. Ravenal Apprentice Engineer

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    LOL Good point, love that last image that cracked me up this morning. Thanks!
     
  3. Lancezh Trainee Engineer

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    I don't see to much fun in space engineers aside from building something cool and then never coming back to it. If you like that, cool. But the focus of ME seems to be a completely different one, i actually see it possibly work aside from Space Engineers, because to me SE doesn't. I'm looking for fun with friends and unless you have joy in just building stuff for the sake of building you won't find to much to do in SE. In ME you could actually use the terrain to actually have a real game with trade, war over territory etc.

    Think about trade and territory war in space engineers. Yeah. Exactly. Not gonna happen, would not make sense.
     
  4. Captain_Brian Apprentice Engineer

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    That's exactly my point though, without the ability to wage war and command troops I just don't see how it wont be boring. The interesting thing about Space Engineers is that you can move/crash/attack with what you build.

    In a Medieval setting without troops, you build a giant castle, and people can just ignore you. You can't do anything about that, other than abandon your castle and go somewhere else. If you had troops, you then become a threat, and being able to deploy/defend against larger armies becomes the motivation to build bigger castles.
     
  5. Bobylein Apprentice Engineer

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    201
    I agree with you, you should totally be able to wage war! I also suspect that's why they started with the astronaut AI instead of ship AI, no?


    Also why constructing epic weapons of mass destruction if you only can destroy your enemies fortress but not let your troops march through the breaches in their walls? or why build towers if there are no archers? Why building a huge Fortress if there is no one to protect?
    I get the idea of concentrating on the engineering aspect but destroying and playing warlord is so much fun too ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2015
  6. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    1,977
    First

    Person

    Stronghold

    ...I need to change my pants now.

    Okay, yeah, as I posted somewhere already: NPCs seem like they will be a Necessity for this setting, unlike SE. Combat focused NPCs are an extension of that.

    Another thing here? Character equipment and customization of equipment. A dude in a leather jerkin, doesn't seem well equipped to go fight a war. You'll need some plate.
     
  7. nartek01 Trainee Engineer

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    LSG is interviewing CEO of Keen Software.He mentioned that there will be barbarians NPC that will trying to take over your stronghold and you need to build castle/wall/trap to get rid of them.He also said that on survival mode(besides creative mode) you'll be starting with your bare hand and gather resources to make better weapons/tools.And there will be a more realistic inventory system than SE where you can have weapons/tools in the inventory but when it comes to like wheels,planks,stoneblocks etc you'll need to come up with a own transportation solution.
    HERES the whole interview:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfOtooxsBAM
     
  8. Leadfootslim Senior Engineer

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    1,300
    I can definitely see AI and a ground-level RTS approach making this game PHENOMENAL... but far as mods go? Modders are going to have a field day. Giant monsters! Wizards! Dwarf Fortress conversions!

    Also, I'm calling it now: two weeks before someone tries to make a trebuchet-mech. :D
     
  9. Tyriosh Apprentice Engineer

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    Ahhh, dem childhood memories, should have Stronghold somewhere here ... *goes searching...
     
  10. Mishka Junior Engineer

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    What you also have to remember is when SE was orginally released we had no weapons...........ME will have weapons from the start and probably other fun features plus ITS A FRIKKIN CASTLE! :D
     
  11. Kémy IronGator Bergeron Trainee Engineer

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    To op:
    If you like moving with your base... Make it so? ;) Build up the digest fat wheels mounted fortress!! (then rape ppl ass) :D
     
  12. Leadfootslim Senior Engineer

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    Also worth remembering is that players designed their own... remember the days of rock-chucking grav-cannons and rock-powered torpedoes? Yea... :D Things are going to get very interesting!
     
  13. Captain_Brian Apprentice Engineer

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    Unfortunately I've been playing castle building games for years, so the thought of being alone and making a giant castle for yourself without any armies is just really bland. Especially since the genre is so full of ones with armies and more things to do (Many of which in 3D as well).

    Other than being in 1st\3rd person, what sets this game apart from all the others?


    Stronghold, Stronghold Crusader, Stronghold HD, Stronghold Crusader HD:

    [​IMG]



    Siege:

    [​IMG]




    Castles II: Siege and Conquest:

    [​IMG]



    Minecraft (Many people built them, and many are burnt out on the novelty):

    [​IMG]



    Stronghold 2:

    [​IMG]


    Stronghold Legends:

    [​IMG]


    Stronghold 3:

    [​IMG]


    Stronghold Crusader 2:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Wintersend Senior Engineer

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    I like the idea of something akin to a first person stronghold where we can have further customization by designing in more detail. Although I agree, while I'm against currency and too large an npc role in SE. They are a must for something like this. Perhaps you could take some inspiration for it from Mount and Blade. It's a good game and has a decent troop command system of a good size for playing in first person or third person limited. Also, merchants are there but only in larger cities but are easy to find if you need them because the locations of any real settlements are generally known (I.e. being on the world map) because there were only a few big cities in the game.
     
  15. Caesar15 Apprentice Engineer

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    I don't see this being very interesting unless of course a First Person stronghold comes into play.
     
  16. golombo Trainee Engineer

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    Where's the fun? This is Space Engineers several hundred years earlier. :D
     
  17. Chen1201 Trainee Engineer

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    Well you dont need just ai all you need is a group of friends to build and claim territory. Hopefully it wont be as laggy as space engineers without all the gryoscopes and be able to handle larger population servers.
     
  18. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    I believe some people will start looking for a mountain, and make something like erebor or the mines of moria in it, would be fun
     
  19. Vicomt Trainee Engineer

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    Having just watched the Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies..... hell yes. The Misty Mountain, Dale...... *head explode*

    TBH I don't care for the combat side of it anyway, a real physics enabled castle builder is all I ever need.
     
  20. Belthize Apprentice Engineer

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    Mount and Blade combat and troop AI with ME.

    Seriously though I do have some concerns with the PvP aspect. Many building games with PvP like Darkfall (sort of building), Wurm, Life is Feudal and of course Space Engineers suffer from the dichotomy that people want to both build and destroy. Unfortunately very few people relish the destroyee roll.

    In almost all those games the conflict eventually occurs out in the open because nobody wants to risk their hard built city, castle, space station so all those games have a combat mode in addition to a building mode. If PvP in ME consists of one group making a castle and another group reducing it to rubble the first group is going to get annoyed really quickly.

    Much to early to say what ME combat will look like, making M&B style combat is hard, very hard, Wurm style combat is easy and relatively boring.

    I'm optimistic about ME the building game, too early to say about ME the PvP game.
     
  21. AedanXaelan Apprentice Engineer

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    Life isn't fun unless you can end someone else's.
     
  22. Samsquantch Trainee Engineer

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    "Several servers in SE run 32 players quite well. 50 is probably a realistic limit." This will likely be implemented in ME.

    Seems like plenty of people to start one hell of a war to me.

    Why all the worry?
     
  23. Captain_Brian Apprentice Engineer

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    Well this is interesting. Apparently they're working on adding barbarians to the game that will regularly rush the player and force them to build castles and defenses. That sounds like a good start, though hopefully they eventually add more enemy types so that it could be mixed armies with different unit types/abilities.

     
  24. Iamus Apprentice Engineer

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    It's more than just a castle building game though. The goal isn't so much about making a castle, but engineering. Engineering castles, forts, traps, walls, weapons, and tools. The things I'm looking forward to the most, are making various machines to do various tasks. Not so much about the castle it's self.
     
  25. Thalion Apprentice Engineer

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    Can you image, that it is more fun to build a giant city / castle with other players together and defend it together? So it is not just one person, maybe 10. And they're defending themselves against a dozen attackers. I believe this is much more fun that soloing with AI controlled units. Share what you build with others and interact with others. If you don't do that you may be better off in single player games or real RTS games. It is not about yourself alone.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2015
  26. elch Apprentice Engineer

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    What if you could have hundreds AI soldiers on your side and your friends could take up roles in the command structure?
    So you can play alone when you don't have anyone around or you could
    assign specific roles to your friends. Those roles would normally be operated by you or by AI.
    To specify any static chain of command would be to restrictive, instead it would be good to give player possibility to do it his own way.

    I imagine it like this:
    You have some determined number of AI controlled player working for you.
    The number is determined from the wage you give them, living space and food you provide ( or something similar )
    There could be something like happiness in mentioned stronghold.

    Now you can give player option to create own Leadership position and give it control over groups of AI.
    So you can create leadership position named for example: "General" and give it specific rights like: "Tactical controls",
    access to other groups defined earlier ( like warehouse, armory etc.. ).

    So the General can now equip his AI soldier with weapons from armory and food from warehouse.
    This position you could assign to player or to AI ( not sure how AI would be good or even possible).
    As a lord of the castle you have all rights one of them would be to override any assigned roles.

    So this would mean one friend can defend the castle, one can be in charge of providing resources etc..
    But it's all under your control in the end. You still have to build castles defenses etc.. but there is also a bigger picture.

    EDIT: I made it readable.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2015
  27. TheBinaryWolf Trainee Engineer

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    It was mentioned before but o think thats the correct way to go.
    Mount and Blade style. Just more polished. I mean party and levy management cand be done similar. Fighting should be easier but engaging(certainly not MC-style or MMO-style) and orders should be reworked but with basis in MB.
    Also dont forget that in ME there wont be 6 ships(grids) for each player, meaning a LOT less computing of physics meaning more players.
     
  28. elch Apprentice Engineer

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    It would be cool if you could chose whether you'll command army or leave it to someone else and just charge :)
     
  29. Textor Junior Engineer

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    But each player will likely have their own cart, catapult, wind-powered horseless cart, wind-powered wooden horse, water-powered cart, and/or perpetual motion machine.
     
  30. Skeloton Master Engineer

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    Fun is what you make it.
     
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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.