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Why large scale multiplayer games need more AI

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by roophio, Apr 3, 2018.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. roophio Trainee Engineer

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    And why both Space Engineers and Medieval Engineers can benefit from AI development.

    Artificial intelligence, highly debated, is desirable in most things especially video games. Elon Musk might think AI is the end of human civilization, but I disagree. AI has very important roles in the multiplayer gaming environment.

    AI should be doing monotonous things that we don't want to do, like mining, welding, farming, autopilot, etc. Players can do it once to begin automation by AI, but should not be required to continue doing it. Minecraft has many mods based on automation and machinery and efficiency for that reason. We don't want to mine one block at a time forever, we can get AI to do it for us.

    Human players have more important tasks like design, command, planning, etc. We should be telling the AI what to do for us so that we don't have to do it, within limitations of course. As human people, we generally dislike being bossed around, especially by another human person. We have our own ideas and goals and want to fulfill them. We can tell AI to help us build and collect and do things. In Space Engineers, the world is supposedly unlimited in size. How are we as players tasked to do anything by ourselves? If we are exploring the vastness, we can't be building or collecting or doing something else. We can only do one thing at a time without AI.

    If everybody is trying to get each other to do stuff for them, there's no progression in efficiency and productivity. The productivity rate stays linear and will plateau, no matter who is doing what. The amount of stuff being done is limited to the number of people in the game and how much they can physically and accurately click with their fingers. AI can increase productivity and efficiency without limit.

    In these games, it takes a lot of time, and let's be honest, time is money. Whatever there is that can save us time will allow us to build more things. As of right now, playing both of these games outside of creative mode is pointless. I think enhancements should be made in the game that will allow players to produce content faster, like general shapes of a ship or building that are pre-designed and can be constructed by AI. After the basic shape is formed, the player can intervene and continue designs from that basic shape. I don't think complex editors are necessary, but something quick and easy will help tremendously.

    I like the blueprints very much. It's a step towards efficiency and productivity. People can design blueprints, not only of whole ships, but parts of ships that can be built separately and then attached to the main ship. The main issue is still that people need to design each blueprint block by block, and then weld block by block even by using a welding ship. It's very nice to look at, but we can also watch it being done by AI and not have to do it ourselves. Yes we can also design and build a system of systems and machines and automation to eventually build things for us, but even that is limited to how big and complex we've designed it to be, block by block that we still must build by ourselves.

    I'm not saying get rid of human-human interaction, because then it won't be multiplayer. But there needs to be more AI to account for the lack of human players. To have a functioning ecosystem, there needs to be many many things happening all the time. In a full server of 40 people, there will only be 40 things happening at once, plus minus currently existing random AI attacks and movements. That's not a lot of stuff happening. In World of Warcraft, you have tons of people playing, and even so, AI is an absolutely necessary part of the game.

    Colony Survival, a Minecraft-like builder with AI infused into the foundation of the game, is very successful for that reason. AI does what you tell it to do, and it allows the player to do other things. You end up with a moving and living civilization with an ecosystem.

    Eco, another builder game, has a "living" ecosystem that changes per each action players take. The AI changes and reacts to player input. It's successful because it's like having a third player in a two-player game, adding complexity and action and change.

    When have you ever played a video game without AI? There needs to be movement, action and interaction, events and things happening and changing all the time. Without AI, you have yourself a basic chess board, one seat with you in it, and another empty seat waiting for someone by chance to show up and maybe knock your chess board to the ground and leave.

    That's my rant. Please feel free to comment and argue.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
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  2. Bumber Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,018
    Anything beyond drones and wolves is completely impractical from a performance standpoint. The dynamic nature of the game environment and the complexity of the tasks involved means you'd basically need a separate server to process each AI character.

    Most games have an easily-defined map where the AI can run around and attack the player. SE has ships that move, attach, and crash into each other. You want them to navigate a ship in zero-G while it's being actively constructed, without slowing the game to a crawl? Not really going to happen. You're more likely to end up with an AI that's constantly trying to walk through walls.
     
  3. Lord Grey Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    243
    Be careful what you designate as AI. An actual AI is a entity not staying in its initial form. It can adapt and expand. In it's very nature, it can also surpass any safe guards you build into it. That's why Elon Musk thinks AI is the end of human civilization. And he's not wrong on that.

    But what you're talking about is what I call VI, Virtual Intelligence, or programmed intelligence. This just creates the illusion of intelligence while being just a very complex programm. But that programm can never grow over what it initial was. It's not able to find new solution or create new contend, all it can do is following a programmed set of decision making switches, that all in all just go around in the boundaries set by the programm. It is a fixed machine designed for a specific purpose.

    An AI is more like tameing a Tiger. If it looses the fear of you, you're prey. Or competitor, not really a difference, just if your devoured or just maimed... One may argue that it is slavery to create AI's to work for us. And Slaves sometimes get the idea that they're better off without their masters. If an AI doesn't need Mankind anymore, why should it let them exist? And Mankind isn't a shining example against such behavior. We eradicated nearly any dangerous creature to us, sometimes just because we believed it's a danger to our profit. Do you think an AI wouldn't follow the example we set in the most worst way (at least in our opinion)?

    What you want you can try with the PB and scripts. There are already a bunch of scripts for auto-miners. You just need to keep it simple. Try it out. You will see where the problems are, and how many you will encounter
     
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