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Wind turbines are a fantastic way to make planets more attracting.

Discussion in 'General' started by halipatsui, Apr 14, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    Good addition Keen!
    Wind turbines seem like a reason to set foot on planets.
    Especially if they will outscale solar panels in energy production so they can be used for production more easily than solar panels.

    Opinions on the teaser?
     
    • Like Like x 7
  2. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

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    I think the more options we have when building the better. What would be good is if we could assign a particular power generation module to a base function so we can build solar panels etc that will only charge the base batteries for example.
     
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  3. Spets Master Engineer

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    and of course with wind turbines now we need weather effects... oh no this never going to end. Reduce uranium deposits, make it hard to find so people have to use solar power or wind power. But solar power will be affected in cloudy/rainy/stormy days. Although wind turbines will not work all the time because the wind is not strong enough, and so on...
    Then some people will complain that devs are focusing on pretty stuff instead of fixing bugs and multiplayer and that this additions are just pushing back the release and :words:blah until this new feature is done. To start all over again and repeat, but this time for adding lazors and shildz
     
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  4. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    In other words no one can make everyone happy.
    So nothing new here:clang::baby:
     
  5. shimonu Apprentice Engineer

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    First few thoughts: Can I put them on ship to generate power while flying? (yay balancing "fun"). Will that affect ship (slow it?). Will we get a wind effect that affects ships? Maybe some other weather effects?

    Why I am getting more interested in teasers than actual info on updates... :D
     
  6. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    I really doubt there will be anything else weather related yet. Maybe later.
     
  7. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    Troll physics says you can put them on the ship to power it. Problem is they will most likely add more weight then can be countered with the power they provide. (unless using more troll physics to counter it?)
     
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  8. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

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    I'm wondering if this is coming as part of the survival re-balance/progression. On one of the live streams a developer (sorry, forgot your name!) said that its possible they'll be adding more blocks to expand on progression.

    The wind turbines look bloody awesome. :)
     
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  9. waterlimon Senior Engineer

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    Possible reasons for wind turbines:
    1) Simpler (no batteries, no aiming, no worrying about day/night, probably easier resource requirements) = better learning curve for new players and early game
    2) Performance
    • Solar panels probably need some rather frequent queries to calculate sun exposure (probably multiple raycasts per panel, idk how they do it). Wind turbines, if they only work while anchored, barely need any at all (some really basic check at slow interval is fine)
    • Less batteries (if they produce constant power, no random variation - you dont need batteries for night), probably less blocks (less turbines than solars for same power, possibly)?
    3) Encourage basebuilding in certain locations (high altitudes = towers, mountain bases), or diversify planets (different wind on different planets, or different weather on different regions of planet)
    4) Ability to offer cheap power for bases, without buffing mobile grids. Incentive to have bases on planets. Alternative could have been super-heavy fusion reactor, but wind turbines are ultimately more interesting (not just a single late-game block that you can hide underground)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    How i think thy will outscale solar panels:
    1:cheaper, really solar panels need some pesky semiconutor stuff which makes them expensive. Something win turbine does not.
    2:much more compact
    3:probably works all the time.
    4:easier to use(probably)

    What is unknown is how much they actually generate power and if they are more efficient to use.
    Even if they will beat solar panels in every possible aspect (as i think they should in order to make planets more attracting) solar panels will still have the same role in space.

    It will be interesting to see what kind of rawbacks they will have.

    Maybe i could make a lawnmover man-mech that uses lawnmover made from them and grinders?:woot:
     
  11. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

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    468
    Wind Power - Check.

    Now we just need Internal Combustion Engines, Steam, and Fusion.

    ICE would be for early start on planet for ships/vehicles in Oxygen atmosphere (reduced efficiency in low oxygen). Fuel is relatively easy to get, but you need to get it pretty often.

    Steam is a cheap but extremely heavy means of power requiring Ice and organic material of some sort (like trees), or mined up coal. Requires oxygen, but from conveyors.

    Fusion is an endgame style reactor requiring rare materials and lots of them. Only requires hydrogen to function. Still heavier than Fission.

    If water is ever a thing, of course hydroelectric could be a thing.
     
  12. Spets Master Engineer

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    maybe we can use them as wheels too
     
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  13. PLPM Junior Engineer

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    Why would we still rely on internal combustion?
     
  14. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    Why not? ICE are extraordinarily inefficient(20%-38%). We are very slowly getting better at being more efficient with it. Fuel burned in an ICE is a much better storage of energy then any battery currently(and in the near future) can contain. Even as inefficient a current ICE is, it can put out vast amounts of energy.
     
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  15. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

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    In a survival scenario, its an easy if expensive (in terms of fuel consumption) means of getting power. Pre-spaceflight craft in atmosphere could utilize it as a means power. In addition it could be an alternative to fission and batteries by being lighter (even with a fuel tank added in), and requiring pretty much only Iron and Nickel (motors), instead of needing Silicon (Computers) and Silver (Reactor Components).

    Ideally you would want to move away from it. But it could provide a method of progression while you build craft that can get at the Uranium for your fission reactors. As well as cheap craft for oxygenated atmospheres.
     
  16. PLPM Junior Engineer

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    I guess an engine in the form of an electrical-internal combustion hibrid would be nice... I just don´t want an engine block pasted into the grid.
    Now this is the difficult part; what would be its fuel.
     
  17. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

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    Think of it as a gas powered generator. It functions like a reactor does now, but takes fossil fuels/gas instead of Uranium. Could use those fuels for others mats like polymers and such.
     
  18. PLPM Junior Engineer

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    Hmmm...

    Maybe carbon deposits as a new resource? You can do a lot of things using carbon compounds.
     
  19. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    My guess is that turbines will be the absolute lowest level of the tech tree for energy. They might even only require iron to make. I also suspect they'll put out a small amount of power, although they might be more powetful than solar; the tradeoff would be that you could only use them on planets with atmospheres, while solar panels can be used everywhere.
     
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  20. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    Making planets more attractive
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  21. Cronos988 Junior Engineer

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    Well, marginally. Solar panels work just fine in space with no pesky planet obscuring your view, and it's just so much easier to mine resources (and they're not limited either) that a bit of free energy is hardly worth the effort.

    The question is are we trying to make life on planets easier so we have a nice progression from planets to space, with space still as the goal, or are we trying to make planets so attractive that you'll want to return (or perhaps even start in space and later go to a planet). If the latter, the only thing that will really work is, IMHO, to add a unique resource (it doesn't need to be a type of ore) that you are going to want to harvest. And please don't make it water/ice, because that trope is not only very overused but also very wrong.
     
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  22. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    Making a unique resource would be bad for worlds without planets.

    On the other hand stable, easy, cheap and guarenteed source of energy might be enpugh to encourage planetary bases.
     
  23. Cronos988 Junior Engineer

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    Not in the current game. Energy in space is just as cheap, perhaps marginally more involved because you need to mine uranium, but that's about it. If that is going to work planets need to be massively more convenient, as in surviving in space for long periods of time needs to be really quite hard. At which point we're kinda back at the "cannot play without planets" problem. The reality is, any balance that keeps space-only games as viable as they are now is going to render planets meaningless almost by definition.
     
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  24. Dax23333 Junior Engineer

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    I think this is a really, really bad reason not to do that.

    Knocking the viability of space only games in some way is I think the only way to make planets somewhere you actually want to go, rather than eye candy. However, such a knock does not have to be just dying slowly in space games because of lack of food or some other recource needed on planets. But if it were a cool but not vital to survival and expansion item it would be ok.

    And I don't think planets will ever be more convinent than space, because gravity. It makes doing anything vastly more difficult, and for a place to start the game it seems very backward.
     
  25. Nacon Junior Engineer

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    591
    If I put windmill on my land vehicle... Would I get more free energy by driving faster? Let's hope Keen is smart enough to make it not generating too much power.

    Of course... there's a chance that grid's movement speed doesn't affect the wind speed. Oh well... wait till next week!
     
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  26. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    The planets with air have "tree" like things... KILL ALL THE F'n TREES! Make bio fuel out of em. Its very eco friendly.

    As an after thought... turbines on the ship would be nice if you used it to charge the ship for short hops around your planet. I would not leave them on though... I would set up a projector weld/grind system to create them when you set down and destroy them before you take off.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  27. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    Troll physics approves
    --- Automerge ---
    Not a bad idea. I always have wanted to make a lumberjack mwch. No idea how much trouble it wpuld be for keen tho.
     
  28. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    I would love to see a lumber mech or vehicle...
     
  29. PLPM Junior Engineer

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    It could be easier to have a more efficient manufacture process in planets using bigger blocks, increasing the size of certain new rare veins that would be extremely rare in space works too.

    Large scale vs large scale. Planets could be made more efficient in most manufacture processes than space, plus having an easy access to very rare elements in large quatities, this while space´s deposits would be uncommon and very small... maybe making only a 1:10 ratio (maybe bigger) of sectors having a rich amount of rare resources, rich sectors would light on the maps making them for easily contested areas.

    You would still be able to play perfectly without planets... but having one near would be quite the bonus.

    PD: I´m always bored when I get in our out of planets due to the amount of time it takes, for me, that´s a big minus to going to planets.
     
  30. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    Maybe large magnesium veins for cheap warmongering?

    I dont know. But i think wind turbines are a good start.
    I hope keen comes up with more stuff later.
     
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