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Would you rather die at some point, or be immortal forever?

Discussion in 'Off-topic' started by Crusader, Nov 18, 2016.

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  1. Crusader

    Crusader Apprentice Engineer

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    There's been some research done about this, and they say within 30 years we could solve the aging issues. There's also some testing right now on brain transplants intro robotic bodies.

    Now the question is... would you do it?

    (personally, if the robot looks stupid, or human, i wouldn't :p)
     
  2. Ghostickles

    Ghostickles Senior Engineer

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    If you never die then how do you take your place with the ancestors?
     
  3. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    you can always upgrade the robot. but there's always been speculation that a person who lives forever would eventually go insane. your list of friends would grow exponentially, they would come and go so much that you wouldn't bother having friends at some point.
    You would constantly need to go to school, not only because you forget things over time but through advances you constant need to 'upgrade with the latest software'
    In a robot body for quite a while you would experience a severe lack of feelings and have withdrawals of human contact. even something as simple as hug or a handshake makes a bigger impact on you than you think.
    And for many of us who work a mundane job and live a less than mediocre life, I doubt we'd want to keep doing that for eternity. that'd be like signing yourself up for hell voluntarily. sure, you might be able to eventually work out of it but it could take 3-4 lifetimes, all while continually having to reset because of the above advancements.
    Time itself would more than likely become meaningless to you. you would never be able to keep schedules or dates. hell, I have this problem now. multiple times a week I have to look at my phone to see what day it is and I'll be like "it's saturday?!?!?? yesterday was monday". but you would have huge problems with historical events and current day happenings.

    On the bright side, each time a religious person tells me Im going to hell I could laugh maniacally.
     
  4. Crusader

    Crusader Apprentice Engineer

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    Immortality is a goal of many, but really, it's a curse. I would still do it, however. Only if your mind could actually be uploaded as the real you, and not a copy. I don't want a squishy brain.
     
  5. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    That could lead to many interesting questions. is our soul who defines us as a person really nothing more than electrical impulses? and if they can be stored onto a computer can they be hacked. with a little coding can somebody change who you are at the core? do we have to stick to a humanoid body? me being a truck driver, could they make me the truck? could we move our conscious onto the web?
     
  6. Crusader

    Crusader Apprentice Engineer

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    177
    No one has a soul. That's been made up by religion. And yes, as any machine, people could just purge your memory and make you into a mindless drone if they wanted to. But theoretically, it would still be you doing these actions. Thing is, storing "memory" onto a computer wouldn't even work. You'd have to be the computer itself. Therefore, we'd need to make up some technology which can replace vital parts of the brain, and then time after time, do surgeries and replace these parts. I'm not a doctor, nor a engineer. I don't know if this would be possible, but I don't think it's impossible to eventually have these. Even if your memory cortex (or whatever they call it, sorry :p) got destroyed during the process, you would still achieve immortality. And then, if the technology is sufficient, they could then copy your memories back into you.

    Just a idea. Feel free to give your thoughts, I love discussion about this sorta stuff.
     
  7. Lord Grey

    Lord Grey Apprentice Engineer

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    What cannot die, does also not live. It's undead. It also opens a whole shipment of cans of worms. If I delete parts of your mind, are you still you? If you rob a human of his memories, would he still take the same choices? What are we? What defines us? What defines life? Who are we? Where did we come from? And where will we go?

    And even if we can replace our bodies, the brain ages too and will decay. Alzheimer, Parkinson and Dementia are problems that only rise in our awareness because we get older than before. Now if we can save our consciousness into a machine, are we still we? You will protect your ghost with the best Firewalls you can afford, but is it enough? What if someone really can hack your ghost? Would you even notice it?

    This throws so many questions. If you're interested in the philosophic aspect of this, read Sci-Fi. This is a topic often dealt with there.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. extraammo

    extraammo Senior Engineer

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    1,015
    Immortality, duh. The whole idea of some sort of psychological breakdown from being around so long is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure you would just develop a level of patience and do bigger projects.
     
  9. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    That's a pretty simplified comment. I mean there's nothing explaining why it sounds ridiculous.

    Id like to use an example from a discussion I've had with a friend while playing planetside. We know for a fact that soldiers in wartime conditions receive ptsd from active combat duty. And these are the ones who come back alive and in many cases healthy by any other account.
    Now imagine if every time you were shot, bombed, gassed, knifed, ran over....we simply woke up in a new body and had to run back out for more. You know, like respawn in in a videogame, only you remember every death, every fight, every single explosion. Are you saying you wouldn't become a pile of crazy after 10 or 20 or 30 times of that happening?

    Another fun example: imagine you're in your robot body on a space shuttle. An accident occurs and you accidently get sucked into space. Since you don't need oxygen or food you remain alive. But there you are, floating for an eternity. Or until you find something with gravity and you start to wonder if the body will survive impact.

    Shit happens to everybody and many of us have traumatic experiences. if we're immortal that shit builds up.
     
  10. Crusader

    Crusader Apprentice Engineer

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    177
    Robots don't feel pain. You'd simply collapse and cease from functioning. The waking up in a "new body" might be a bit shocking at first but I don't think it would matter that much.
     
  11. Sinbad

    Sinbad Senior Engineer

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    I cant generaly comment on psyc stuff, but i think the 'immediate and seamless respawn' would remove the fear of death, and so eliminate the trauma.
    Also, who says a mechanical body has to be unfeeling? We are getting pretty good at making non-biological skin, some of which have tactile sensor densities that approach human skin. I think the first application of these technologies will be prosthetics that are, to the user, indestinguishable to their original parts.
    We already have most of the organs recreated, the ones we dont have to do with the immune system and digestion. Neither of which you really need if the only biomass you have to support is a brain in a tightly sealed container.
    As far as replacing the brain goes, yes your memories make who you are. Sort of. The experiences you have help to form your cognitive neural network. Thats the part thats you. Remove the memories and your personality should be mostly intact. You would react to events in a certain way, but be unaware as to the reason. This is the cruicial part of the brain that has to be copied, but to date, we still lack the technology to determin the brains struture to that extent. In a living brain at least. As for memories, we still dont even know how or where they are stored.
     
  12. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    But you're not a robot, you are a human conscious inside of a robot, and your mind has always been capable of creating pain by thought. Ever hear of phantom limbs?
     
  13. Crusader

    Crusader Apprentice Engineer

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    177
    I can relate. Think of dentists. :D
     
  14. doncdxx

    doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

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    I, for one, look forward to a possible future where I can spend a few millennia as a brain in a jar in a type of Von Neumann probe.

    Pain can be edited out, fear can be overcome with time, pleasure can be stimulated electrically. Gene therapy can allow us to evolve, computer networking could allow us to still have a society. The mind can be sped up to experience time faster, allowing each second not hindered by our body to be experienced more fully.

    If someone really needs to interact with the world more directly, they can always put a computer brain in a cloned body and experience it via wi-fi. We could even procreate in such a manner.

    The fear that immortality will make us less human is the fear that any fundamental change will make us less than we were. Socrates feared that this new "writing" thing would hinder our memory. Perhaps it did, but it expanded the potential for humans to share information and educate our new generations. As long as we're alive, we can always adapt.

    Without such an obviously finite number of tomorrows, we would expect more from ourselves. If people knew they didn't have to whither away and die, we would value life more. We could all try to learn everything that can be learned. Immortality would make humanity a better species.
     
  15. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    How would you understand pleasure if you you forget pain? How could you understand empathy and caution if you have no fear? I think a lot of you are underestimating just how much our emotions make us who we are. As an old saying goes, you never truly understand what you have until you've lost it.
     
  16. doncdxx

    doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

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    I'd take the risk of missing my mortality after losing it.
     
  17. DDP-158

    DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    The question will continue to remain at what cost? We're talking about nutrealizing emotions which is what makes us us. Your friends enjoy your company because of who you are. Remove what makes us laugh, what makes us angry, what makes us cry, and you become the pc that you are typing on. Think your friends want to hang out with HAL? Think HAL wants to hang out with them? He no longer has the same connection to them.
     
  18. doncdxx

    doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

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    Not as long as the endocrine system is still in place. We may put regulators on it, but as long as it's still there our emotions are the same. Then those regulators are closer to an artificial willpower than an abandonment of emotional states. It will give us a firewall between conscious choices and and natural instincts. Those instincts won't be fully repressed, but should feel more like something living in a cage that we can choose to express or not.

    All of that still fails to account for whether the stimuli that make us laugh and cry aren't capable of being appreciated in a non-emotional sense. A conscious mind is the sum of it's experiences and our emotions are attached to our experiences currently. The ability to detach them won't make our experiences less defining of us, rather it will make our primitive impulses something not tied to each experience.
     
  19. SaturaxCZ

    SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    I think main problem is preserve mind and stay yourself, you can basicaly replace parts of brain, or make cells regenerate, synthetic, atc... but are you sure: you are still yourself and long age didnt change you ? Your human body is not perfect and you will forget thinks you did learn and learn new thinks you didnt know. ( until you dont save your memoris on somethink else and upgrade your memory too )

    When some one say robot, why every one think robots can not feel ? There is research for people with prostetic arms to get feed back from fingers and feel again + feel thinks you didnt have and on longer distance ( for example 3 arm placed on your back or 10m behind you ) so... meybe it will be posible creat artificial skin ( for now feed back go back to nerve system and end in brain, but who say you can not creat artificial brain too ? ) + why lost emotions ? ( There is no reason for it happen, if you are hearth less bas**** dont blame it on poor machine :D )

    Ways how live forever with coments + some was mentioned:
    https://futurism.com/images/so-you-want-to-live-forever-infographic/

    Im for combination of become one with machines + go small. Imagine body what will work like you have now, but will not be from organic parts ( that will be basicaly only difference )+ when somethink go wrong small nanobots in body can heal/replace/creat new body pars, organs, nerves, atc... and can be regenerated forever ( Thats why i think main problem is preserve mind, over creating eternal body + How long do you want live ? )

    And one small problem, if every one become machine who will stay human and continue die + evolve ? ;) Machines dont have DNA.
     
  20. damoran

    damoran Junior Engineer

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    608
    Immortal is intriguing for sure.

    There is so much in this world I want to do and I never have time for it because I am busy feeding my body, sleeping or supply some other biological need. However, that is part of what makes the work worth doing, when you do have the downtime it means a lot to you and makes it all the more sweet.

    Ultimately, I'd probably not do it unless I could retain some of my basic humanity in the form of emotions, touch, taste feeling etc.
     
  21. 666Savior

    666Savior Apprentice Engineer

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    A lot of interesting comments on this. Personally i would go with immortality, but i would like to keep my human body. stem cell research and bionics would help greatly but i will never put my mind in a machine.

    One thing, however that people fail to realize: you can never live forever. the universe is in the process of slowly dying and at one point will suffer an inevitable heat death. Basically means that as energy transfers between stuff it gets more spread. It will eventually be so spread that nothing can be created, destroyed or live. it will be an expanse of particles.

    Therefore, the only way we as humans could live forever is if we become a cross-dimensial species. We need to be able to shift between verses to find another place to live. Since there are possibly infinite verses, we could do it near infinitely. but that is if we can figure out how to do that.
     
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