Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

You got a LOOONG way to go devs

Discussion in 'General' started by Master Payne, Apr 26, 2017.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. odizzido Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    670
    I jumped right in to my first game and was foolishly flying my banana boat around trying to find uranium.

    You know what might be cool....being able to tether yourself to your ship and starting in space with jetpack disabled.
     
  2. ViroMan Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,123
    Tethering might be nice... I have once lost my starting ship... I spawned in the ship parked it next to an asteroid... then turned it off to save power while I marked all the ore deposits nearby... I never found the ship again and died due to lack of oxygen.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    So you marked the ore deposits but not where you left your ship?

    :p
     
  4. ViroMan Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,123
    I know right... kinda noobish and I DO NOT DO THAT ANYMORE! I don't mark iron deposits since... well they are in EVERY asteroid. The asteroid I parked it in had only iron. There are plenty of asteroids with just iron too. :(
     
  5. Robotnik V Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    382
    In case you can't get a refund, or you re-buy the game at a later point, and you aren't just a troll, when you begin playing this game START PLAYING IN CREATIVE. Like every other game, you need to learn the game mechanics first. Also, you chose the slowest, grindiest start of all the starts.
     
  6. Farindark Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    415
    Greetings

    I disagree with starting out in creative to learn how things work. You don't get a sense of order or balance for when you play survival, there's certain things you need to do early when starting out. Also its very easy to make mistakes when building things in creative you sometimes wont pick up until you copy and paste an item into survival. Many times I have used a blueprint from the workshop and something hasn't worked right, some builds you can just tell were made in creative. :eek:

    The best way to learn is by doing and dying when that happens you wont do it again because it sticks! There's nothing wrong with creative mode it's a valid game play option if you just want to build without fuss but it isn't the best way to learn the mechanics. That said it's only my own opinion. :p
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Nacon Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    591
    Ok whatever.... It's just another player not realizing he got himself into a Early Access game that isn't ready for gamers like him.

    We don't need another run of the mill threads like this to keep on going.
    Please close this thread.
    Thanks.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  8. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,801
    Creative is a great mode for learning how blocks work. You have to learn how to build a valid ship. Being able to copy and paste and just place any block of your choice speeds things up. The downside is that it's not ideal for learning how to manage and plan inventory space. Most people design ships in creative mode. So learning how each block works in creative is very useful.
     
  9. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    411
    Some people need to have their hand held when they first start a game. I think the first dozen or so hours are best spent in creative mode really getting a feel for how things work.

    Or perhaps noobs will have Station 419 soon...
     
  10. ViroMan Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,123
    I think I am missing a reference here...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,225
    in b4 thread close.

    amazing how quick people are to dislike on these forums :)
     
  12. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,602
    As if that's unique to these forums... it's human nature, I'm afraid. In fact, these forums are relatively tame and friendly...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    411
    Station 419 is an unfinished scenario sitting in the game's files that looks like a survival gameplay tutorial. From explaining airlocks and reactors, to basics of mining drill ships and material scouting, and ending in base defense from waves of drones and a final boss. It looks like the whole thing has multiplayer nodes.

    It's been sitting there unfinished in the directory for months now, but still not done. You can look at it with the vrage editor. The scenario data is in steamapps\common\SpaceEngineers\Content\VisualScripts.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    824
    Some people may not accept the truth but you're 100% right. All I can really say to people who disagree is take a look at the Steam store page yourselves:
    [​IMG]

    Sure, its only 525 in the last 30 days, but ask yourself, is that a good or a bad thing?
    I doubt I'm alone when I say this, but if the first thing I see on a game is "Mixed" in recent reviews, my first impression is: "Oh, this game must have gone down the toilet, guess I won't bother buying it yet". Obviously not everyone will think that way. Some will still buy the game regardless, but it will definitely hurt sales, which Keen rely heavily upon.

    Secondly, when I see so few numbers of reviews (especially mixed or below), that just helps reinforce the idea that the game has stopped selling well, or has "gone to hell" and the developers have stopped caring. We know Keen still cares greatly of course, but new players likely won't even know anything about Keen.

    I've seen a few popular steam games get crushed over the years because they ignored what the bad reviews on Steam were saying and instead only listened to the loud minority on the forums. Over time they mount up and eventually strangle sales to the point where the developers can't afford to develop the game anymore. I just hope Keen doesn't become one of them, because they're doing a decent job on most things, but really need to get on top of the bucket-loads of bugs and introduce some kind of new-player experience in the form of contextual hints/directions as you're playing. Those would cater to players who like to jump straight in and learn the ropes instead of following what I like to call "bog-standard tutorials".

    It's also pretty easy to forget our first days in SE. Some of us were around when the game had a fraction of the content it does now. Back then things were easy to figure out. Over time, as new features have been added we've only had to incrementally learn each new thing as it arrives. For a new player, they get hit with a huge amount of content all at once in a very disorganized way, which is bad. Overwhelming the player in the first few minutes is the best way to make them go "**** this" and uninstall/refund it, no matter how good the gameplay is. If they can't get into it, they won't stick around.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Master Payne Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    2
    HIGHLARIOUS!

    I forgot about starting this thread. A day after I posted my original comment, I hunkered down, leaned on YouTube and the Steam forums, and actually learned a couple things to help me along. I have a better idea where to start digging and even built my first base!

    Hotshot Jimmy
    Nacon
    russo_bolado
    beelzerob
    May Rears
    Ronin1973

    Not sure why any of you log into these forums - you're all worthless and perfect examples of what gamers typically label as toxic community members. Your comments added nothing helpful (except to yourselves) and more importantly, zero to the developers chances of getting a return on their investment. Surely after I posted my original comment there was a potential customer or two considering buying the game. He/she came here looking for some ideas, saw my post, and after reading your empty and condescending comments, quietly left with no intention of buying the game.

    When a community member posts their opinions, your only responsibility thereafter is to ignore it or offer helpful suggestions. But you couldn't do either, and instead like a child got baited into making zero value comments to protect the honor of what? You don't even work for the damn company! In the future tho, I'll try to appreciate your uncompensated loyalties.

    Forcedminer
    Me 10 Jin
    FlakMagnet
    Robotnik V

    Thanks, you guys/girls really rocked it. Especially Forcedminer. If the first 6 jungle idiots I listed above had followed your leads, forums like these would thrive for everyone. I have high hopes the devs will iron out the existing bugs and add some updated tutorials - it was kind of a pain searching for current game version YT videos.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    824
    I'm (We're?) glad you stuck it out. SE is a great game, but the initial learning curve is a piece of work for new players.

    Most of your complaints/criticisms in the OP were valid though. As the title says, they still have a long way to go.

    EDIT: You might know by now, but SE weekly updates tend to break things often. If that happens, you can switch back to an earlier release via the steam beta/branch options to avoid waiting a whole week for the next update to fix something you were using. :p
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    841
    I´d recommend that you all forget the initial comments/discussion and start anew.

    *Edit*

    By the way, welcome aboard :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    411
    Wait till you see the threads were people suggest shields and/or lasers.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. ViroMan Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,123
    SHHH Your going to trigger people!
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  20. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    @Master Payne
    What I think the developers DO need to take away from this is the fact that the game tutorials and initial menus didn't point you in the right direction. The game isn't finished and I would hope the documentation supplied will get better before actual release, but if the game menus don't lead you into the tutorials, or the Steam page doesn't point you to the online resources that will help you get started....well...then they need a rethink.

    The problem is ( and it's a common one )that tutorials get written by experts. They know the game inside out. Tutorials should be written by a complete rookie while they ask lots of silly questions which are then answered by the expert. Silly rookie questions are a must-have for a tutorial, as they are the ones asked by the people NEEDING the tutorial. I have well over 2000 hours in the game, and know it inside out and upside down. I know how it all works and pretty much finished learning it some while back. I have forgotten how hard it can be to learn the basics .... and when I started....it was a LOT more basic. No oxygen. No planets.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  21. russo_bolado Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    613
    Reaction is proportional to action. You came here with a typical rant-post that I've seen countless times, of people who say trash and leave the game forever.

    For someone who asked for a refund, I'm amazed you're still here. Anyway, if you decide to buy the game again (and actually try to grasp its basics instead of blindly jump into the hardest part of the game), I'll be glad to help :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  22. halipatsui Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,253
    Or liquid water
     
  23. beelzerob Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    429
    Heh, you're hilarious. You walk into a room, punch the devs in the face, and then chew out the community for not asking if you hurt your hand.

    Woot, I'm toxic! Do I get a forum badge for that?:woot:

    Edit: Well fine, if you're actually going to give the game a shot, I'll help. DON'T TURN YOUR SHIP WELDER ON AND THEN WALK INTO IT. Ask me how I know this....
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
    • Funny Funny x 1
  24. VigotheDudepathian Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    50
    The game is called "space engineers", not "no man's sky" or "call of duty" or "hello kitty island handholding adventure". Its supposed to be hard, thats PART OF THE FUN. If it was easy, it wouldnt have ENGINEERING in the title. Hell I think it needs to be more complex. Add in al and ti, (the whole periodic table why not) more complex recipies and extended processing times for complex items. Make people work for it and suffer, suffering and hard work build character.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  25. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    841
    ...

    The whole table? all 110+ elements...

    Even the gases and liquids? All non-metals Na, Cl, Br... what are we supossed to do with the last one? a line of clothes?
    ...
    I´d like carbon though...
     
  26. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,225
    add a touch of copper to the thrusters...BAM.

    Green flamed thrusters.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  27. PLPM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    841
    Only the hydrogen ones :p
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  28. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    Carbon could come from trees and a slightly recoloured uranium ore.

    Bob's your Aunty's Husband.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. cPho Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    14
    Hi Master Payne,

    Welcome to Space Engineers.
    It seems as though you've had your first disappointment (although from what I read, it was largely self-inflicted).
    Brace yourself for MANY MANY MANY more disappointments.

    They will include:
    * Running out of oxygen or hydrogen in inconvenient places (fix = suicide & respawn)
    * Running out of iron when you're nearing the end of some design, only to find that your mining drone is broken for some random reason and forcing you to partially tear down your new creation so that you can repair your old creation so that you can mine enough material to build your new creation back to where you had it already.
    * Wildlife killing you.
    * Wildlife breaking your stuff.
    * Drones killing you.
    * Drones breaking your stuff.
    * Drones that you finally managed to figure out how to shoot down dropping out of the sky and either killing you or breaking your stuff when they crash to the ground.
    * Discovering that a trip to the surface of a planet is basically a one-way trip for many, many planet days (in your case, probably months) until you can figure out a way to get off the damn thing.
    * Discovering that all that effort to get back into space only really got you access to a single resource type that you couldn't get on the planet and which you have managed to do without so far anyway.
    * Discovering that your creation to get you into space doesn't serve so well to get you back to the surface and crashing spectacularly.
    * Discovering that about 80% of your brilliant engineering ideas will not work (for example a gravity artillery that fires rocks using gravity generators, only to discover at the end of it while scratching your head trying to figure out where you went wrong that in fact the real issue is that GRAVITY GENERATORS ARE DISABLED ON PLANETS BY THE GAME!!@... erhem excuse me I'm not sure where that came from... o.O
    * About 8 different forums worth of "what the...?" threads totally something like 250,000 questions about why something isn't working.

    NOW.
    Having said that.

    You can also (should you decide to stick to it) discover some crazy enjoyment as your creative and problem-solving skills are pushed to the absolute limit, and once you've expanded your horizons to include these limits you discover that there's a whole other sub-set of creativity and problem-solving that you didn't even realise you would need and you set out to break this new barrier... rinse and repeat.

    Space Engineers is not Quake.
    Space Engineers is not Minecraft.
    Space Engineers is not Starcraft, or EVE or Star Citizen.

    Space Engineers is all about you figuring out how to use a huge palette of tools at your disposal (not even counting the butt-tonne of community content) to create things that make you smile. Want to find that gold deposit faster in future? Build yerself a drone that flies around and use it to mark your deposits on GPS... then swing by later in a mining rig and drill down, ejecting unwanted stone and keeping only your minerals... then bring it back to your mammoth refinery that connects to a landing pad where your cargo hauler takes the refined minerals up to your factory station in "orbit" where you're building all the stuff you need to make a Carrier that would make the Nimitz cry big fat wet sooky tears.

    Stick with it, Major Payne, you'll learn to love the disappointments, because they're what contrast the joys when things go exactly to plan.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.