My unwarranted ban from discord and the lawless behavior.

For the past week or so, in the Keen SWH discord I have been suffering from near constant trollish behavior because users have found that they can always get a reaction from me. I generally don't call for moderators but when it started getting old and these certain users would not back off, I contacted moderators about it.

One moderator in particular responded to me and talked to me in private. I don't quite understand him, nor does he appear to understand me. He kept telling me that the people harassing me are harassing me because of something I haven't done and that was totally unrelated. I don't think he actually read the channels and checked what was really going on.

He told me afterwords, something odd, I didn't quite understand. I believe he was telling me I'm not allowed to talk in the discord anymore. That I had to go to him and him only for all my SE related questions. But I didn't quite understand and when I asked him to clarify he simply repeated the same thing. I just said nevermind and continued on.

So I was talking in #general again, asking for help with prefabs and importing them to the game. Jimm, making snarky remarks that were unnecessary, which were annoying me and preventing me from getting the help I was looking for, I pointed it out to a moderator again. The moderator, Dan2D3D, told me to talk to him about my prefab issue. He tried to help me, but I didn't understand what he was trying to tell me to do. Then another user in the Keen discord provided me the solution and I figured it out with their help. They asked me what I was trying to do so I explained it. Dan told me "Vas if you continue like this = I will perma ban you". I didn't understand what I was doing wrong. Was he really telling me I'm not allowed to talk in #general anymore? He kept saying "I know what to do" and he never actually clarified. I finally asked him to clarify once more at the end, and then he banned me.

I will now share the end of the log file, as the whole thing would be very big, but I can put it all on pastebin if required.

Honestly, I can't understand the guy, he has a strange way of talking, as if English isn't his first language or something. I asked him to clarify what he was telling me twice, and th last time you see there, he just banned me. All because I didn't understand him.

Then he tells people in the chat that I was playing him? Makes up some BS about me?

I have witnesses, multiple witnesses. Shaostoul, Super.Happy.Alien, even one I was complaining to the mods about Jimmacle.

My ban was unwarranted, and its clear that this guy acted on his own without consulting other moderators first. He ignored me when I asked him to clarify what exactly he was telling me to do. He refused to acknowledge that people were actively harassing me and told me it was my fault.

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All I wanted, was the moderators to put a stop to people baiting me, harassing me, trolling me, using me as a meme. I understand that people have a difficult time getting along with me at times, that usually happens with Aspergers. However this normally only happens in a community where moderators don't actively put a stop to trollish behavior and this behavior had been going on for a week straight. I just wanted it to stop so I could have a normal conversation without people making fun of me in some way. I have enough stress as is without people constantly making fun of me.

The moderator told me it was my fault for reasons that didn't even make sense and told me some things I -still- don't understand, then banned me for not understanding him.

I am told by users that posting this here will just get me banned from the forums as well because Keen will stick behind its moderators no matter what they did. But I am sorry, I just can't let this go. I was following the rules, I was talking kindly to people at the time of my ban, friendly conversation with Shao and Alien, even Jimm slightly who I dislike because of all the trolling. Things were getting better, and then I was banned for reasons I can't understand still because the moderator who talked to me wasn't clarifying himself.

I am fully aware that in my past I often started controversial topics here about realism. Some people there still remember those times and were extremely hostile towards me as a result, I simply blocked those users and moved on. I am not really that person anymore, I mean I still like realism, but I know when to stop.

After my ban, I couldn't find a way to contact Vagax about it. I feel I was unfairly banned, and so do several other users.

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I'm sorry, I can't get logs from Keen SWH discord because after my ban, all messages of mine were purged. Rexbot keeps track of those from what I'm told, so you will have to ask Rexxar for them. Remember, if a moderator wants full log, I will provide it. (Of convo with Dan)

Look, I'm not trying to get anyone banned. I just wanted a moderator to tell users to stop trolling so much. A week solid of snarky comments and trollish activity towards me, seriously, it breaks multiple rules and no moderator cared enough to stop it! Two users who did it admitted straight forward that they do it just cause. Really, all a mod had to do was say "Cut the crap". Instead, I got turned into like.... 3 memes and people constantly making cracks at me about them.

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EDIT; I want to share with you the idealism of the community KeenSWH has allowed.

Essentially, he says its ok to bully someone for a week or longer if they say something rude even once, and that its perfectly ok to keep picking on the user till the user learns to ignore them. They do this because the moderators don't stop bullying, they watch and get a kick out of it.

 

a four year poster and/or old account is really impressive.
i'm just going to screenshot this and keep a note of it and see how it goes.

 

I've been with Space Engineers since the near beginning. I wish some of the people there on the discord who witnessed my ban would come here and back me up. They all said they'd wait to see what replies happen first. I do know that multiple said my ban was unwarranted as well though.

 

It's dificult for outsiders to judge by listening to only one side. But Asperger spectrum is known to have social deficites. Did you mention this to the Mod? And do you have a therapist? Maybe it wuld help you if you take the log to your therapist and look it throu together to see where misunderstandings happened and were you have to work on your social skills. Sadly most people don't have much patience if they don't know the other person has a disability, sadly some neither have patience if they know it...
Wish you good luck.

 

However, there are multiple people who agree that my ban was unwarranted, even the people who were picking on me in the chat that I was trying to get the moderator to put a stop to.

Several people were there talking to me actively when it happened and I shared more log with them in private even. I can't get logs from the in server chat because not only am I banned but the server auto deletes all data you've sent when banned which is why banning is extremely bad because it permanently deletes the data even if unbanned. This moderator was too far out of line and didn't bother consulting anyone else or even trying to explain what he wanted better. I said 3 times I didn't understand him and he didn't try any other ways or ask another moderator to talk to me.

His profile says Canada, but it seems like English wasn't his first language, I can't really tell at this point. If it is his first language, then he is missing some steps in the English language that would allow me to understand what he was trying to tell me and I don't mean that in an insulting way.

 

And does that help your case? I don't see them posting here in your favor. And I get the impression most people are just not interested in this. See how many replied to this thread.

 

People are often hesitant to reply to something like this. In the event that moderators are corrupt and decide to punish everyone, they'd rather not also be punished for publicly speaking against on behalf of someone else. Its something you commonly see in dictatorship communities. I'm not sure if this is one, but, you can see some of the hallmarks of it.

 

Sometimes you can type the name with the @ symbol like this: @DrVagax and they will get an alert that someone was talking about them in this thread. On certain moderation topics they may prefer that you use the "Start a Conversation" feature to send a private message.

 

Ah, I didn't actually remember if he was part of the forums or not, I thought maybe he was just the discord manager or something.

 

You insulted me, so I reported you.

Point 1)
You said because I didn't find Rick and Morty funny that I didn't understand physics and my IQ wasn't high enough, while simultaneously bragging about your own high IQ.

I went looking for the message, but it was deleted. So I'm all for looking into rexbot history.
It was on 27 Mar 2018, around 1pm my time.

Point 2)
You posted a wall of text and pinged a dev. The latter of which was a rule violation. Others also pointed out constructively that that feedback was better placed somewhere else. Discord is literally the worst medium for feedback, as it fades to obscurity in no time flat.
You have three better choices: rexbot, feedback site, or the forums.
You proceeded to respond:

Your feedback and suggestions could be the best thing in the world, but if no one reads it, it doesn't matter.
If you are breaking the rules, your feedback will be ignored by the very people you want to see it. So you were receiving constructive criticism. Yes, a few people were making fun, but you need to learn to ignore those people and pay attention to those that are actually responding to you in an adult manner.

Speaking on walls-of-text, I learned years ago at my work that people will not read walls of text. You need to keep it short and sweet, basically a TL;DR that's not more than a sentence or two, then have an expanded version for people that want more details. The majority of people in discord aren't prepared or want to read a giant block of text that's larger than the screen, especially when there are other active conversations going on in that channel. That's one of the reasons a static site, like the forums, is better. You don't have to use rexbot if you don't want to, pick another medium. Keen has a bunch for a reason.

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As far as moderation goes, how do you know they didn't have a consensus to ban you?

Not only that, but in most cases (not just here, but in general), moderators back each other up. Unless it was extremely unreasonable, moderators aren't going to reverse a decision another mod made, at least not right away. It's possible he might get told privately it was too far, but publicly they won't say anything.

I can say with reasonable certainty that (if Keen mods are anything like mods elsewhere), all the moderators already knew of your ban before you wrote this post.

I will make one personal observation though:
Conrad was too "loud" when he spoke to you. Basically shouted everything in #general. I found that inappropriate.
However when Dan2D3D spoke to you, he did that over PM, which I found tasteful. Just because a moderator needs to speak to you, doesn't mean it needs to be broadcast all over #general.

 

I insulted you? I think you're stretching there, I didn't actively insult anyone. I also never said anything about Rick and Morty, as I've never even watched it so I can't find it anything. I said I prefer not to lower myself to the point of using memes as a form of conversation. That might be considered an insult, but its not a direct insult at anyone, its me calling memes stupid and unintelligent. Not the people who use them.

The dev had spoken earlier, less than an hour, I was getting something for him and the chat filled up with a bunch of stuff. I pinged his name as I would anyone else I was talking to, which is not a rule violation unless it was unwarranted like a random person coming to the chat and pinging devs who hadn't even spoken at all. I doubt the rule was meant for those who are just talking to a dev and pinging him when the chat floods up so much that messages are hard to find, like you would do with any other normal user. The rule is 99% likely there to stop randoms from just popping in and pinging devs because they are devs.

Earlier in the conversation, someone had said my ideas and feedback were stupid and pointless and deserved to be trolled and attacked. So I posted something constructive and good, while talking to Arag, and well lookie what happened. I got attacked and made fun of instead. So its not that people were attacking me because my ideas were bad, its that they were attacking me to troll me and get a rise out of me, which is a rule violation that no moderator seems to care about enforcing. They just ban the victim for responding.

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As for moderation actions;
I asked the guy to clarify what he was telling me to do multiple times. It was rather... confusing.. Like I said, its as if English wasn't his first language and he didn't understand that I didn't understand him. He merely repeated the same exact thing a second time and ignored me when I asked 3 times what he meant. What I -believe- he meant, is that I'm not allowed to talk in the discord, at all, to anyone, for "a few days", and that I had to go to HIM and him alone, for any help at all with anything related to Space Engineers. (Which I tried, but it didn't help because I didn't understand his first step and when i asked, he simply said to do his first step, in the end it was #general that helped me with my problem. He got mad at me for getting help there instead of him.)

I had called the moderators in, because people were bullying me, breaking several rules. I decided that I wasn't going to put up with it anymore, and pinged a moderator with a list of rule violations which I had the right to do according to the rules. When I did, Dan contacted me privately and said its because I've got a bad reputation and because of things that weren't even relevant. He clearly wasn't there, clearly didn't read what was going on, and clearly claimed I was at fault rather than doing anything about the people bullying me.

At the time of my ban, I was having a friendly conversation between Shao and Alien. No hostilities with anyone. The moderator suddenly messaged me again and told me to stop. "Stop what?" he told me to stop again. I asked again what he was asking me to do. He banned me after the 3rd time I asked for clarification, directly after I asked him. I forwarded log portions to Shao and he agreed that my ban was unwarranted, so did a few others apparently.

Yes, the moderators probably knew Dan's side of the story, where he went and made a lie about me claiming I was manipulating him or some such.

You see, this all could have been prevented. Had a moderator actually publicly said in the chat "Stop baiting/trolling immediately". And boom, all the people bullying me, harassing me for a week straight, would have had to stop. Hostilities would have ended, the people I had blocked would have stopped and been ignored, and all would be well. Instead, no moderator did that, they blamed me for being analytical and generally emotionless, possibly "condescending" which is not a crime. Bullying, however, is technically a crime, at least within the USA. Its also against the rules, but moderators didn't enforce it at all.

Dan could have been trying to help me, but I don't understand how if he refused to see my point of view and blame everything on me. He also spoke far differently than me and I couldn't fully understand anything he was saying, it was hard to try and talk to him and he kept assuming I understood him perfectly even after I told him numerous times I didn't. Which is an abuse of power, if you tell a moderator that you don't understand him, the moderator needs to go to another to make sure the user understands what is being said before you just go out and punish them, over nothing even.

Lastly; Yes, I know moderators stick together. Thats why I don't expect anyone to actually do anything about this situation. Its a corrupt system when moderators can get away with anything just because they are given the benefit of the doubt, and other moderators already don't like the user who was punished. Allowing it simply because they don't like that user even though the punishment was wrong. I'm not that kind of person, and any community I run or moderate, I maintain an unbiased standpoint at all times. My dislike for a person, does not affect my judgement when punishing for a rule violation.

 

So you're saying "the rule wasn't written for me, it was written for others."
Yes, the rule was added because people were abusing it. However if you were around before and after that rule was added, you'd also notice that the number of times the devs have been tagged has been significantly reduced. Yes, more than likely your one tag wouldn't have resulted in any action by itself. So that means you can do it anyway?

That's like "oh jaywalking is illegal, but it's for people that interrupt traffic or are in a risk of safety, not for someone like me running across really fast on an empty road." Then complaining when a cop gives you a ticket anyway, even if the road was empty.

Whether or not moderators are corrupt or not is irrelevant. If you follow the rules, don't be antagonistic and be polite, you won't have any problems. Yes, others were being rude to you, so? Simply ignore them, and report them. Don't reply to them, don't fight back, that's how you get into this situation.

You notice how no one else has a problem with the moderators?

Look, you just don't get it. You don't understand why you are the problem. Maybe it's the Aspergers, I don't know. I do know that you are not helping yourself by fighting back.

Note: I'm trying to be as helpful as I can here, I'm giving you advice and trying to tell you what you are doing wrong. You are in constant defensive mode, as you were in your last reply, and that causes you to continuously fight back. That is the core of the problem.

It doesn't matter if that one moderator didn't speak proper English. It wasn't just him. One moderator alone isn't going to go wild and ban people for no reason.
Stop blaming others, and take responsibility for yourself.

 

Except cops don't usually ticket you for running across where there's no traffic. Proven by the fact that there was an officer sitting there at a spot waiting for speeders and I "jaywalked" across because there's no crosswalks anywhere, where there was no traffic yet.

I did report those who were antagonizing me. I got banned, remember? I reported them for antagonizing me and I ended up the one who was banned.

No one else has an issue with them because people know to hide and be scared of them, I've had a few tell me that they don't trust certain moderators myself and don't talk much because of how the community is.

I don't even know who you are. People picked on me, and bullied me. The staff of the discord did NOTHING to stop it, nothing at all, even laughed at me when I pinged them trying to report the bullying. The community has a few toxic members in it that are allowed to get away with their bs. Several people agreed with me! People who I can't name because corruption would likely get them punished too.

What I "did wrong", was respond to the constant trolling by reporting it publicly and telling people to stop, which only caused them to respond back claiming I deserved it or it was my fault. Which is what they did wrong, by not cutting it out when told to. And the moderators did wrong by not putting a stop to it. You don't ban the victim for being easily provoked. You punish the perpetrator. I will not, absolutely not, back down on this till someone institutes an anti-bullying regulation into the server and puts a stop to it. Jimmacle already promised me that he'd stop it himself once he saw I was banned, I even believe he thinks my ban was wrong. If the guy who was picking on me, that I reported to the moderators, says my ban was wrong, what do you think that says about the moderator's actions?

That one moderator is the absolute only one who talked to me, the only one to "handle my case", I saw no other moderators jumping in to help or warn me. All I can see is the actions of this single moderator.

 

I was in the discord under a different name, and for the most part, I got along with you.

You being so public about this is the problem.
If you only took it privately with mods, they would have placed a new rule up, and no one would have been the wiser. It's happened before in Keen's server.

The fact you are so loud is why this has happened. You are broadcasting your dissatisfaction and troublesome interactions for the world to see.
People don't want others in their server that are loud and causing trouble. It's far easier to ban you and keep the server quiet. Sad, but true. Those that avoid the mods know that being loud catches unwanted attention.

At a place of work, if you report someone to HR for harassment/bullying, the employer usually fires both parties. I've seen it first hand. It's done for legal reasons for the protection of the employer.

Anyway, nothing will happen, you aren't the first to be banned, and you won't be the last.
You were as much a problem as anyone else, you just got caught.

ConradLarson moderated you and several others as well a few days before you were banned, which is why I said before it wasn't one lone mod doing that. In fact, another person was banned at the same time for posting inappropriate content, and yet another was kicked for triggering the spam you didn't like, so you weren't the only one.

Life isn't fair, get over it and move on. If you can learn from this, and are welcomed back to the server, I hope you have better time.

I've said my piece.

 

People who are "loud", are the ones who are brave enough to face injustice. Rather than let authorities sweep it under the rug. There was no need for a new rule, the rules were already being actively violated and the moderators did NOTHING, except blame me for being the victim. Baiting, people purposefully trying to piss me off, trolling/harassing me. Those were rule violations, and yet I was in trouble for getting angry at being harassed. What sort of bullshit system is it where the person who's attacked is the one who gets in trouble?

Conrad said he was watching the harassment at one point, and did nothing to stop it. Clearly he was allowing people to break the rules because it was funny watching them piss me off.
Dan abused his powers, by banning me for not understanding him, and talking in general with others for something I needed help with that Dan was unable to help me with after he ordered me to go to him and him alone for all space engineers related problems I had.
I've not seen any other moderators act on anything at all or even talk when I was around. Also in the case that someone got banned, I'm pretty sure it was that guy who had direct messaged me "spam" 50+ times in under a minute. He wasn't really bullying, he was just an idiot.

If you're refusing to give your name, I can only assume that you are trying to hide. I usually don't have issues in any community unless the moderators of that community allow people to be bullies. I can be in a server with over 2000 users just fine if the moderators put a stop to harassment and bullying. KeenSWH suffers from moderators who don't want to do anything unless someone pings them multiple times to do something and then its easier for them to ban the victim because the bullies are too far up in the chain of command to do anything to. Too popular and too loved, the reason they get away with it likely. Not to mention one bully is an ex employee.

Its clear to me that KeenSWH is not going to do anything, they would rather their community be toxic all because a few people in it are toxic and publicly known to be toxic (I've been told so by 2 users who came to me that those 3 users are toxic in the community and that you just generally have to block them because mods won't stop them). Its a shame, all they have to do is tell these people to stop harassing people, and they can end the drama. But no, stopping bullying is too hard for them!

https://cyberbullying.org/advice-for-adult-victims-of-cyberbullying

So is KeenSWH finally ready to put a stop to bullying in their community? Or are they going to let it continue?
I took this publicly, because I tried privately and got banned with the moderator making up a bullshit lie about me as the reason for the ban.
I'm done here until someone from Keen actually speaks up, this topic is going no where otherwise.

 

Fact of the matter is, you created a large nuisance on the discord. You came in out of nowhere and within your first weeks on the server were rude and condescending to several well-renowned members. There is a full unadulterated log of all activity on the server, including all message edits and deletions. I can pull the logs at any time and show the real story.

If I had to guess (as I'm not privy to moderator discussions anymore) you were removed from the server because there were a large number of complaints about you and/or the moderators noticed that you create arguments wherever you go. The decision to ban in cases like this is not done on a whim, it's discussed among the moderation staff.

Dan gave you a warning. If you didn't understand it, you should have asked for clarification until you did understand, or spoke to another moderator. Dan was well within his right to ban you for violating a warning he thought was clear. This is 100% your fault. Furthermore, complaining about bans in public is against forum rules.

Here's a piece of life advice: If you have a problem with everyone you meet, consider for a moment if you are the problem. Everyone on the discord gets along just fine because they know and understand what the community is and how things work there. They don't belittle other users for using memes in a casual setting. There are new users who come and go all the time, I have never seen the kind of reaction you got on the discord, and I am the most active user of all time.

I could tell you why you got this reaction, but you'd call it victim blaming and wouldn't listen to me in the first place.So, good luck with life and your upcoming discussion with forum moderators.