Rotors and gap between attached blocks

Between the rotors and blocks attached to them is now 20 cm invisible space ( I do not need to say that on the opposite side of the rotor is everything destroyed, when door move 20cm in the wall :rof: )

( rotor still can rotate blastdoor and blastdoor is still attached on rotor head )

 

maybe this is there way to prevent that special collision issue? have you tried setting the displacement to (-)? I have noticed this as well.

 

setting displacement to -40 (minimum) is barely enough to merge blocks "around rotor" and ON rotor together. Way too small for "hangar door" with two rotors in corners.

 

Yea seems to be just the normal rotors. Advanced rotors do not have the gap.

 

I tryed setting displacement to max + and - , rotor head and doors didnt move at all. ( rotor was not broken just displacement didnt work ) rotating with rotor worked fine.

 

I would actually like to add more to this Issue. This has affected my builds allot since I rely on the rotor displacement for many of my creations.

The issue is most simply put, that when a rotor is placed, and a block placed on top, that block is no longer displaced correctly when the rotor is displaced into the negative (or toward the rotor). When you move the rotor to the positive, it still seems to push the block that is on top away from the rotor like it should. When you go negative to any number (-1 to -40), the block on top stays at a rotor displacement of "0". It looks as if the block on top is no longer attached, like the Original Poster said, you can see a gap in between the rotor and the block attached to the top. This isn't just a visual or the OP not understanding how to do it right, he nailed it in the fewest words possible.



MORE EXPLANATION, to explain why this issue hits me so hard, BUT NOT NECESSARY TO READ.

I build gates with multiple rotors attached by using merge blocks and the rotor displacement trick. This latest update has not only prevented me from doing this, but when I try to load a map with an already built gate, it will not move at all. If I copy and past the gate, the door will lurch out of the frame and destroy stuff (Usually the frame and itself).


THE ROTOR DISPLACEMENT TRICK: I make a station or ship with a gap of at least 4 blocks and 2 or more blocks of space in the other two directions. I place a rotor on the inside of the gap, and facing each other so that there are 2 blocks of space in between them. Normally you could place one block on one of them, but not on the other, but I put them both into a "-40" rotor displacement so I can then add a normal block or armor block to each, with space still in between due to the displacement. I add a merge block on top of each block, or to the side. That part doesn't matter as long as the two merge blocks will touch when the displacement is sent toward the positive, and position them so that they are also facing each other. Then I slowly bring the rotor displacement toward "0", and the merge blocks will click into place (usually around "-20" depending on your speed, but faster speeds can damage the blocks). I have found that it seems best to never go more positive than "-10" due to it putting too much pressure on the gate, but I usually leave it around "-16" after allot of testing. Lastly, I can remove the merge blocks and make sure there is no damage, but those two blocks remain together. After that, just build up my door and frame to complete my gate.




I believe my issue is not only that I can no longer make this work, but it is destroying many of my builds. It also has thrown off pistons based off the rotor idea and other more complicated builds.

I certainly do not think this was intentional, and expect a fix in the next round of patches. I hate to be that guy, but due to what I like to build and that I have implemented the rotor displacement features on almost all of my builds, I may play Space Engineers much less due to this issue. It is kind of like what happens when you play a game half way through and then suddenly loose your save game, you just feel like you are not ready to repeat all of that again. Though the last poster said that "Advanced Rotors" worked fine, so that may be a temp fix, but my current builds are still messed up till this is fixed.

 

Still in game after update 1.057.

 

Hi,

reproduced and reported. Thank you for report.

 

just to add a note - with this gap you are not able to create gate door anymore.

 

Still here... and it's 2016? Oh, advanced rotors dont have a gap and they can be bridged together via 2 merge blocks. Normal rotors cannot be bridged. What's up with this Keen?!

To be clear, this only seems to be a problem with large ship, or station, normal rotors. Small ship normal rotors do have a large gap between the rotor head and any attaching block but can still be bridged with a merge block (as tedious and un-survival friendly as that process is...)

 

Still hasnt been addressed

Also, I've noticed that small ship rotors cannot be combined via this method if the rotors are facing away from eachother, hmm.

 

Small ship wishbone joint: place a column of two cubes, place two rotors on opposite sides of the top cube. Check you have power to the rotors. Remove the rotor part from one of the rotors. From the other rotor part, build up 3 blocks, then 3 blocks over the top of the column, then 3 blocks down to line up with the empty rotor. This is the wishbone, on the face of the cube nearest the empty rotor, place a rotor part so its axle is inside the empty rotor, notice the axle does not collide with the empty rotors hit box. Plonk down a keypad to access the system menu. The unattached rotor will not show an angle, click detach, then attach. Now set both rotors to 0.005 displacement. Simple and easy, no merge blocks required.

 

touché

I should have tested it further. Since a picture is worth a thousand words, as they say, below is my specific issue which requires advanced rotors... although small ships have advanced rotors, they do not have access to advanced rotor heads ? The area that needs to be merged repels each other like same magnetic fields.

 

Oh whew thanks for bumping that old bug report as it still is valid and annoying.
Shame the small gap hasnt been fixed in 18 months even though the change apparently doesnt require that much to change (moving model in proper position).


As for the general dual-rotor issue i generally redirect to this video as it offers various approaches.

 

I see your issue there. Its not the rotor or merge block causing you issues. Think in terms of grid squares. The cargos are 5 grid squares each with a one square gap between them, that means there is a 3 square gap between the inner bottom set of elbows, and a 9 square gap between the bottom set of rotors. The top set has two three square conveyors and two one square merge blocks. Thats only 8 squares., the merge blocks wont join because there is a one square gap. Move the cargo containers closer and you will be able to merge it.

 

I tried the change, but the merge blocks still push away from eachother when I move them closer with the rotor displacement. This is only an issue with the lower rotors (in the pic) that face away from eachother.

 

Ok, one last thing to try: referencing your pic for directions
Try merging a different way. The two conveyors at the top, build upwards (away from the bottom rotors) with single cubes. Make two prongs that can position merge blocks touching each other so one faces the camera and one points away. Now rotate one rotor away enough to place the merge blocks, rotate it back into position. They should merge. Now you can fill in the gap between the conveyors then remove the merge blocks and prongs.
If that doesnt work, im out of ideas.


Edit: one more idea, try making one side with normal rotors. Pleasent symetry aside, do both sides ned to be conveyored?

 

Nope, they still repel each other :/ Thanks though!

 

I am having a hard time understanding the actuall issue there because i can easily merge such a setup.
Could you please add an image where the issue is because i just increase the displacement for the adv. rotors that face outwards or increase it for those that face inwards, place the merge blocks while one got one more block offset to overcome the 1 block gap and let them merge.

 

Wait, do you have ownership of the merge blocks? Is that even an issue still?

 

The issue is with the lower rotors (as seen) in the posted image; there's plenty of movement in the 4 adv rotors to allow the merge blocks to touch but when they get much closer than they are in the image they will push away from eachother which causes the 'lower' rotors to rotate in opposite directions... But that's long after the mergers should have connected anyways

- the merge blocks are facing eachother correctly (holes align)
- all ownership is set to me w/ share all (including merge blocks)

 

Hmmmm. ok one more, maybe because the grids you are trying to merge are too far away from each other as number of grids goes? Try making the two vertical pieces one grid with a horse shoe over the bottom joints?

Ive made one of these before, but that was some time ago now, pre-planets. If it doesnt work, try making one side normal rotors?

 

It still sounds like an issue with your merge blocks.

Are both enabled (from the old image it looks like) and do they turn yellow when in proximity?

You can make a copy of that car, get both merge blocks close together and remove one of the two conveyor blocks so that one of the two merge blocks would get split off the grid.
If both merge blocks are really close, both should merge together. If that works, it is an issue of overlapping grids. Though i had no idea why.
Otherwise remove the other conveyor as well and copy-paste both merge blocks close together again when they are alone. If they still dont merge, you didnt set the prerequirements for them to merge right.

 

Yes, the merge blocks work properly....

If I leave one free floating it doesn't quite 'merge' but clings to the other block until it eventually slips beneath it and falls off. They don't have many prerequisites when floating like this; they're both on, and set to my faction with share all selected.

Changing one side of the setup to regular rotors did work! Which got me looking at the advanced rotors more closely and i noticed that the displacement will not go past -4cm without causing the heads to vibrate and tilt as if they are colliding with themselves internally. I tried moving the rotors to make sure they weren't hitting some other part of the truck and this behavior occurs anywhere on the vehicle with advanced rotors.

- Rotors need some loving Keen!! -

 

Glad you got it together

 

Hey guys!

Thanks for a nice and thorough thread Just to assure you, we're aware of the rotor gap issue, rotors indeed still need some love and there will definitely be time for that in the future.

Regards,
PF

 

Update 01.135 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fixed a bunch of rotor gap issues, thanks Keen!! However, didn't seem to help the large grid standard rotors not having enough space to merge two together.

 

Small grid rotors still have the infamous gaps, though.

 

Ha, baby steps i guess

small grid regular rotors still have gap, but allow merging; large grid regular rotors do not have gap, but do not allow merging, ugh.

 

Yep, still working on it, there are still some issues with gap even for the large grids

PF