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Update 1.184.7 - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Nov 2, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Drui Keen Update Guy Administrator

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    1,356
    Hello, Engineers! The team continues to mainly focus on the next major release but in today's update we still have some nice improvements for you. Character backpacks, which could decrease the performance on highly populated servers, can now be removed from the world via the "Remove Floating Objects" function in the Space Master screen.
    Due to the feedback received from last week's update, we decided to tweak thruster damage so now the "damage shape" strictly follows the visual representation of the thruster flame.
    Additionally, the in-game Chinese translation was updated and other minor issues and crashes were resolved.

    running.jpg

    Fixes
    • tweaked thruster damage area/range: damage shape now strictly follows visual representation of thruster flame
    • Backpacks can be now removed by Remove floating objects function in space master screen
    • fixed issue with inventory desync when moving items (wrong items position)
    • fixed crash when unplugging USB headset
    • increased maximum number of CPU particles/billboards
    • fixed held items not dropping on death on DS
    • fixed unfinished Cryo Chamber draining power
    • fixed flickering background screen in Character scene
    • fixed scrolling issue in LCDs
    • updated Chinese translation
    Rexxar's Dev Blog
    Hey guys, given the amount of discussion about thruster damage, I thought this would be a good time to explain what exactly has been going on.
    The original problem was that thruster damage simply didn't work in lots of cases. It ignored some kinds of blocks, certain configurations disabled damage on the entire grid, it didn't work on servers, on and on. On top of that, the damage volume was a cylinder implemented in a bad way, which was taking a lot more CPU time than it really should have.

    Over the past few weeks, we've been working on rewriting the thruster damage system from scratch. The result is that the damage system actually works. Instead of a cylinder, we used a rectangular bounding box for the damage volume. This is because our engine is designed with several very fast methods to get entities which intersect a bounding box. However, the box only checked for the entire cube volume of blocks, instead of physics intersections, which caused it to behave unexpectedly.
    So we have a new solution which combines the best of both worlds. It uses the bounding box to get a rough list of entities, then a capsule shape to check for physics intersections. This isn't as performance friendly as just the box, but it's better than the original solution. The cost of the physics check is a tradeoff to make it behave realistically, but it's well worth it.

    The end result is thruster damage with the same volume as before, but performs better and actually works.
    We really do appreciate all the feedback you've given us over the last week :)
     
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  2. Carlosmaid Apprentice Engineer

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    174
    First! ok ,today isnt the major update :( but.. good fixes again!
    And I look forward to the next major!!! major! major! i want major!

    At respect to the thrusters damage... everything that helps to improve the stability and performance in dedicated servers is fine and necessary. Sometimes we should give in some features with which it does not look so realistic, but thanks to this can play better.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
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  3. Whiskey2049 Trainee Engineer

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    13
    Nice! Looking for the major!
     
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  4. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

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    Very nice
     
  5. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,200
    backpacks causing decreased performance?
    but they barely even last long enough for an engineer to rummage through them.

    alot of players weren't happy about that. :p glad to see work has been done on it.
     
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  6. eviltek2099 Apprentice Engineer

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    198
    • fixed held items not dropping on death on DS = Yay
     
  7. Phoenix84 Junior Engineer

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    Except if they damage all blocks equally, that's not realistic.
     
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  8. Darian Stephens Trainee Engineer

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    42
    Will thrusters still damage blocks obscured by other blocks, or was that never an issue? I'd hate to have to reroute conveyors because a thruster is firing in to the heavy armor block above them, especially when they conveyor isn't even touching the block and there's a vacuum between them.
    That's another question: Since you said the damage follows the flame, does that account for shorter flames with thruster override?

    It's great to see the damage behave more intuitively, though. I'm sure the performance improvement adds up with lots of thrusters firing at once.
     
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  9. PandaTv Trainee Engineer

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    7
    yeeehh

    • tweaked thruster damage area/range: damage shape now strictly follows visual representation of thruster flame

    this is better good job
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. Dataro_X Trainee Engineer

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    Well done, thruster damage to flame representation.:tu:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. FoolishOwl Apprentice Engineer

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    413
    Thanks, Rexxar, for explaining the details. This sounds like a good fix; I look forward to checking it out after work.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. Kurazarrh Apprentice Engineer

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    209
    I recall discussion (and I submitted a bug) regarding how small-grid thrusters interact (and damage) large-grid blocks. Are large-grid heavy armor blocks still immune to thruster damage from small-grid thrusters? Are there any other large-grid blocks that don't take damage from small-grid thrusters?
     
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  13. w0lf3y Apprentice Engineer

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    151
    very happy to see the thruster damage fix. Will definitely be testing them tonight.
     
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  14. Roxette Junior Engineer

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    941
    Looks like it's only fixed in some cases.
     
  15. PrioroftheOri Trainee Engineer

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    37
    You guys should really just be more transparent with your updates instead of hiding everything until the day you release them... Literally every other popular indie game in development does it. Rust, ARK, Robocraft, even We Happy Few openly expressed their desire to be as transparent about what they are working on! Give us something, don't have to give us everything but enough so we can be prepared for whatever your about to throw at us with these seemingly shotgun style updates. And I don't mean silly little teasers like what you did with parachutes and wheels, just give us some info about what y'all are working on, what you plan to do in the future, what you might do in the future. The dev blogs in Rust are a very good example of this method. You say there is going to be some really big stuff coming in the next major update but is not telling us really any different then if you just said "Hey guys, next up we will be working on (insert whatever)" At least we can get a better glimpse into your development process and really see how organized you are. Now that would be cool.
     
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  16. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    220
    As of the update I'm noticing Large Grid Large Thrusters are burning 6 blocks out and are no longer burning the 7th block under full power. I've also noticed that Large Grid Small thrusters are burning at only 2 blocks out under full power and are not damaging the 3rd block any longer. Just to be on the safe side before I continue work on my starbase I want to ask. Large Grid Large Thrusters are supposed to have a 6 block burn distance, and Large Grid Small Thrusters are supposed to have a 2 block burn distance. Are those numbers correct as of the tweaking this patch? Like I said I wanted to make absolutely sure before I kept working on my base as it heavily depends on knowing the maximum thruster burn distance. As precise as I have to be with some of these builds I really can't afford more surprises like that mid refit
     
  17. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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    373
    Thanks for the update. However, once again: Keen, don't you think it's time to publish a table showing grid size, thruster size, thruster type, and damage distance?

    EDIT Also, can anyone explain exactly what this means:
    • increased maximum number of CPU particles/billboards
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Logi Apprentice Engineer

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    170
    I got to the point about "Character backpacks" and without reading further, for a moment I though they added different backpacks with different stats (as the skin system has made it unlikely that we ever get suits with different stats) and I was about to celebrate.

    Then I thought that maybe they made the backpacks to have separate skins from the suit instead, so people who desperately want to have full skin sets would go grazy just trying to find them in game, and rather beg KSH to make them buyable, and I was already looking for my pitchfork.

    Then I thought, maybe I should just read the post.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  19. rifmouk Trainee Engineer

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    99
    thanks for this update but i'd like to be tease ( a little) about the next major
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Forjo Apprentice Engineer

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    130
    For the record, thruster damage is still DIFFERENT. Large grid ion thrusters will now damage blocks that were far enough away -- we'll have to add another block of range. And in small grids, the thin wedge blocks will still burn when placed near large ion thruster cones despite not being touched by the thrust cone. Ships that have blocks at the previous block minimum distance will now destroy themselves. At least this is predictable now as the thrust cones do BARELY reach into those blocks (or at least it appears to).

    I just don't understand why the developers can't accomplish this without requiring us to redesign our builds. Redesigning for a beneficial change makes sense. But as many have pointed out, this change doesn't seem worth it based on what it breaks.

    Still, I suppose it's "better". But it will still require me to redesign. They obviously reduced the damage range relative to last week's change. Why the reduction couldn't have been made to match the damage ranges prior to all of this is what I don't get.

    Looking forward to the day when SE is simply a joy to play -- not a constant exercise in tolerance of irritations weighed against what is truly an amazing game.

    --- Automerge ---
    What kind of thrusters? Atmo? Hydro? Ion?

    Large grid ion's in my builds have greater range than they did before -- both for large and small thrusters.

    **EDIT**

    Did some more testing -- the damage ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT match the graphics. A large grid ion's plume goes out only 4 blocks with the barest tip touching the edge of the fifth block if you look VERY closely (maybe -- I'm still not sure). Yet a half-block placed in that fifth space burns when a blast door doesn't. Maybe the hitbox on the half block isn't right since it's new.

    Also, a wedge block placed at the edge of the nozzle on a large grid ion DOES NOT burn -- but DOES in the exact same configuration on a small grid. Note that neither of these burned prior to the change.

    Can we PLEASE have a few more tweaks on this? Lack of consistency is a bad thing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
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  21. PandaTv Trainee Engineer

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    7
    the steam achievement is buggy i fly all planet and not 1 more i play of star system survial no admin mode or creative .

    i have over steam a ticket by support for this .

    Explorer
    Visit all planets and moons in Survival mode
     
  22. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

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    2,356
    Forjo, I hate to be “that guy” but the game is in beta and gets updated weekly. NOTHING you build is future proof, and they could drop something tomorrow that renders all of your designs obsolete. This is the reality.
     
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  23. Forjo Apprentice Engineer

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    130
    You're not that guy -- it's a valid point. But that doesn't mean we can't dispute the necessity or benefits of certain changes. That the developers made this latest change after last week's change is an example of that.

    I'm just asking for a few more tweaks. Today's patch gets us closer, but ships will still destroy themselves needlessly. It's not too much to ask for another adjustment -- particularly when it's been demonstrated that adjustments CAN BE MADE.

    -Forjo
     
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  24. Super_Happy_Alien Apprentice Engineer

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    386
    Cool Update again ... But yet again you forgot to add Randomly Exploding Jetpacks !!! maybe next week i guess.
     
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  25. zDeveloper10 Junior Engineer

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    740
    I'm under the impression even they don't know until the last minute what will be included. (based on faulty inclusions, and atmospheric hints given in streams,etc)
     
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  26. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

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    220
    @suicideneil I reported the hydrogen tanks draining in creative mode way back in July and asked them what was up. I basically had to pry it out of them that it was intentional even though they did NOT include a patch note on it at the time. Even then after having to basically pry it out of them. They all but told myself and a few others to f*** off and get over it. I don't mind changes to the game otherwise I wouldn't have picked it up while it was in Alpha and still playing in Beta. I get that there are going to be bugs and issues and changes. However there is never a legitimate reason to make such a drastic change as that and not have put it in the notes at the time unless someone seriously dropped the ball somewhere. I get that mistakes are going to happen, but the notes should always be double, trippled, and even quadruple checked to make sure that a change that massive is documented.

    @Forjo the thrusters I tested with are the Large Grid Hydrogens. For me the Large Grid Large hydrogens were burning at 6 blocks out, and Large Grid Small hydrogens were burning at only 2 blocks out. Considering I build near exclusively out of hydrogen save for a select few ships and structures, it's very important for me to know the ranges of the thrusters as I've calibrated my main starbase structure around it.

    At this point overall I just wish they would leave thruster damage ranges alone the way they are. Saves me ALOT of headaches by the large grid small hydrogens going back to 2 blocks burn distance as that was the major reason I had to refit my starbase to start with. At least this time they actually put in a patch note indicating that they changed the damage distances. Upgrading is one thing, otherwise I'm a firm believer in the saying of, if it aint broke don't fix it. At this point I just want to know that my thrusters are working, that the numbers of 6 large blocks for a large grid large hydrogen thruster, and 2 large blocks for a large grid small hydrogen thruster, are the correct burn distances, and finally that there won't be anymore major changes to thrusters for awhile save possibly model updates if needed.
     
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  27. Captain Broadstairs Apprentice Engineer

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    468
    Thank you for providing the reasoning for the thruster changes.

    To many of us part of the frustration was a seemingly apparent case of "if its not broke don't fix it". To know it was actually broken in a way that wasn't obvious, to me at least, makes me much more understanding of the changes and why it was necessary to make changes.

    However I am also glad that a compromise has now been made to match up the thruster flame and the damage volume. I'll be the first to admit that negative response got a bit overzealous, and that in hindsight more benefit of the doubt should have been given that you would tweak the system appropriately with this weeks patch once the matter had been brought up without us making a big fuss out of it. I do hope you understand of course that things got heated because we care about and appreciate the game.

    Very much appreciate the tweaks, and I certainly value the kind of detailed explanation given.
     
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  28. Alli Trainee Engineer

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    28
    I don't see anything on respawnship, but these don't seem to be lowering the simspeed anymore and I thank you for it ! :D
     
  29. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,187
    The over-zealousness wasn't just on the negative side;). I'm glad they searched for a solution most people could accept, and I'm sure more can be done but how much time do we want them to spend on this when the List of Other Stuff is still out there? I can imagine very soon they'll do something that will make thruster damage your least concern. It's Keen :woot:.
     
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  30. InsKill Trainee Engineer

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    I'm playing with mod EEM - Exploration Enhancement Mod. Yesterday, after update, NPC ships fly on its route, but fast spinning. One fix, two break.
     
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