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Update 1.185.7 - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Jan 4, 2018.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Drui Keen Update Guy Staff

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    1,386
    Summary
    Hello, Engineers! Back from holidays and waiting for your weekly dose of Space Engineers improvements? Well, wait no longer! Inventories on grinds build by Projectors are accessible, destroyed cargo containers are dropping items again and more.

    185.7.jpg

    Fixes
    • fixed crash in ModAPI
    • fixed inaccessibility of inventories on grids built by projector
    • fixed issue with cargo containers not dropping any items after destroying
    • fixed labels on button panel being offset on moving grid
    • fixed textbox limitations could be overcome by copypasting

    Thanks!
    Keen Software House team
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2018
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  2. GDragon Trainee Engineer

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    Really big update!
     
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  3. FPZ Shadow Trainee Engineer

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    Nice!
     
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  4. Super_Happy_Alien Apprentice Engineer

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    Yea nice update Again and good work ,,, but i guess i have to wait for randomly exploding Spotlights.
     
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  5. Darian Stephens Trainee Engineer

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    It's always nice to see updates (That Cargo Container fix is especially good for post-damage recovery), but I'm still hoping for a fix to a grid's conveyor network failing after it loses power (Not just getting turned off). Parts of the network come back online if you manually update it by grinding down and rebuilding a part of the affected network, but this makes it much more difficult to do a pure solar playthrough, since you can easily run out of power if you miscalculate your power usage.
     
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  6. Sigurd Hansen Trainee Engineer

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    And I've been waiting for a couple of years for the data from the MaxOutput/Solar Panels to become stable. :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. Registry_Editor Trainee Engineer

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    Agreed, though not sure if same problem as I have a reactor powering the grid that isn't even close to saturation. Have been having massive issues this week with the conveyor system randomly turning off so you can't move stuff between inventories. Grinding parts of the conveyors away and rebuilding makes them go green again but doesn't actually fix the issue. Totally depowering the entire grid (solar, battery and reactors) seems to fix the problem until it randomly happens again.

    AGREED, AGREED, AGREED! Having wasted so many hours trying to work out why my solar panel tracking script wasn't working properly this week, I was gutted to eventually find and read about the data from panels being unstable/inaccurate. Totally hoping for a proper fix for this soon Keen :)
     
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  8. posthy Apprentice Engineer

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    111
    Does this mean copypasting don't add trailing space to each row anymore? If so I'm glad :)
     
  9. Registry_Editor Trainee Engineer

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    Also, we finally made it planetside for the first time this week (Dedicated multiplayer server) and my god are wheels bugged. Keen, please fix this. All my players have abandoned building wheeled vehicles in favour of flyers because they are fed up with jittery land based vehicles that flip over and explode becuase you drove over a grain of sand. Surely the whole point of planets is to build awesome wheeled vehicles? We're even having strange issues where just standing next to stationary wheeled vehicles causes them to jitter around, and several of them have a perpetual 0.07-0.09m/s speed even when hand brake is on and power is completely off.

    This is really ruining our enjoyment of being on planets, please dedicate some time to fixing wheels once and for all!
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  10. Rambo-CZ Trainee Engineer

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    53
    when do you finally repair the wheels?
     
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  11. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

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    822
    Another great small-but-effective update. Nice one Keen! :)
     
  12. NikolasMarch Junior Engineer

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    is it not already? ive been using TXC Automated Solar script thing on dedicated servers for a the last few weeks and its working well, keeping track of the sun, also moving the rotors with less clang is a great help :)
     
  13. McTec Industries Trainee Engineer

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    5
    Thank you guys. These fixes are very appreciated.^^
     
  14. Marcelo_ACFM Trainee Engineer

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    Hello. I am actually quite interested in the dropships and vehicle shown in the picture.
     
  15. tharkus Junior Engineer

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    small update but nice fixes :)
     
  16. KingdomBragg Junior Engineer

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    Thanks all :D
     
  17. Sigurd Hansen Trainee Engineer

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    Scripts need to compensate for the unstable data
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. Major Trainee Engineer

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    Only problems I had on dedicated and single player, in terms of wheeled vehicles is the brakes and e brake don't engage on inclines and most of the time they'll roll away regardless of parking sideways forward or backwards. Which at this moment make vehicles very difficult to work with on hillside salvage operations and near impossible to use on uneven terrain.
     
  19. Sebastian Höhne Trainee Engineer

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    Has the turret AI been fixed?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. EEBKiller Trainee Engineer

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    Well, thanks for NOT fixing the bug regarding Small Advanced Rotor [heads] not transporting items and oxygen/hydrogen which you introduced in the update 3 weeks ago. You broke one of my important ships this way and now im stuck on earth, until you finally fix this nasty bug ...
     
  21. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    1,551
    Normally...you will get a load of posts telling you it's all your own fault for not setting up the wheels properly or for driving at several thousand miles an hour over rough terrain..... but lets be honest. Wheels have never ever worked properly and I hate them. The ineffectual handbrake issue and messed up grip has dogged them from the day they were let loose on planets. Everyone just builds flyers. Until the power gets nerfed and uranium is made impossibly rare and you have to rely on hydrogen to fly. Then we will all give up and go back to space where we belong
     
  22. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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    407
    Just FYI... The devs have said in the bug forum that they're aware of it and working on it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  23. gordon861 Apprentice Engineer

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    128
    They teased a new version of wheels about six months ago and then they were never seen again. As mentioned above, everyone just flies now (which isn't perfect).
     
  24. StrikerBAY Trainee Engineer

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    Thank you guys :)
     
  25. Eikester Apprentice Engineer

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    422
    this is still not working
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  26. jeramiahlarson Trainee Engineer

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    What happened to the hydrogen/ice powered generator and wind turbines they teased us with a few months ago?
     
  27. ViroMan Senior Engineer

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    1,122
    /me click on ops picture thumbnail to get a better look ... it opens new page and...

     
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  28. Slywolf117 Trainee Engineer

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    Now just make building using projectors actually work when you DON'T have the means to make huge ship building machines, and you'll be set! (as in, make it so the "show only buildable" actually functions and lets you BUILD on the block instead of blocking view of blocks BEHIND them that it DIDN'T let you go to start building on, thus screwing up the whole thing.)
     
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  29. BarefootWheels Trainee Engineer

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    1
    I've experienced this as well... I find that it seems to be associated with the conveyor cube. Replace it and the systems work again.
     
  30. Royale98 Trainee Engineer

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    Let me clear here: I'M NOT COMPLAINING (cause I know people are going to take it that way)...

    But there's always these updates that fix lots of little things here or there but I'm being 100% serious when I say I've only ever run into one bug in Space Engineers: like a year ago I had a small(ish) (large grid) welding ship with 6 reactors, if I turned everything on and thrusted in 3 directions (for maximum thruster power usage) it would only reach ~80-90% power usage. One day after an update the ship would not stop flickering power (it was like a ghost was just flipping the power switch rapidly). It was only that ship though, my base and my mining ship (the only other powered things I had) were fine. Then one day it just stopped flickering and all was well.

    Every other bug I've run into was rooted to this or that mod.
    (Well I have gotten some that were introduced in updates, but they were either hot-fixed or fixed by the next update or had a very simple fix or workaround, so I don't really count them. never anything game breaking.)

    Point is, I see so many people going:
    I've been building a massive 212,000 block projection in survival for the last many many months with show only build-able on and I've never had an issue with it. As for "huge ship building machines", you don't need anything but some materials and a handheld welder to build off a projection, so I don't even know what you mean by what you said.

    I would accept Space Engineers as it stands right now as a final game (one exception). I experience no bugs, I really think you're all just TRYING to break the game sometimes. "How can I break this or that and make em fix it." Not that that mentality is bad, actually pretty good for finding rare bugs people might possibly have sometime.

    The thing that really sucks about SE is the performance. Now I understand there is a block limit, I have already surpassed it, and plan to pass further (my current project should come out to around 400-500 thousand blocks whenever I finally finish it), and past that block limit performance degrades quite significantly. But KEEN can cut the crap cause that's a lie. Before I built this ship I ran the game in 4K, graphics maxed, it was like some exotic butter (er... 60fps butter obviously). Then planets came along, and I was like: wow, this runs amazingly well (same everything still butter), landed on the moon with a space station to later convert to a base (i really oughta get to that) and it took my exotic butter, gave me some okay 55fps butter. Started building really big things, as you do, and it took my 55fps butter and gave me 50fps margarine. Started building my massive project, at about 100k blocks (and attached to my ~15,000 block station at the time) and after discovering you can just delete entire planets so now all that's left is the earth system, because mars is tens of millions of km at the closest not just hundreds or thousands (I dont remember distance between em but it was orders of magnitude too small, anyways); I got back that like 55fps okay butter. Now with the ship at 212,000 blocks I average a moldy 40fps piece of cream cheesed bagel, mostly found to be due to a couple specific mods and scripts. (a copied world without a few mods & scripts still hits margarine levels.) But honestly surpassing the block limit really has no effect. From my own experience performance scales linearly with ship/grid block count and ship/grid count, I don't know why KEEN says 200k.

    Now this is granted I have an i7-6700K @4.6GHz under an EK Supremacy EVO Elite on a very thick 420mm rad in push-pull, and let me tell you, SE gets that thing HOT. My computer runs at a constant 60C under that liquid cooler, fans balls to the walls, window open with 30F-60F (depends on the night) cold air coming in and getting mixed into the room by my fan and it is still hot in my room (usually settles around 85F) because I'm playing SE. The only other program, not even a game, that can get my computer to run that hot is a Small FTT (for max heat) torture test from Prime95, which runs my CPU at about 75C-85C with the same conditions.
    I also have a ZOTAC 1080 Amp! Extreme running at a constant 2088MHz, the cooler is damn beefy (it's a 2.5 slot card with triple fans) and while playing SE.... let me put it this way: I have no idea why, but it's cooler than when I play minecraft (minecraft just runs so heavy on my GPU for some weird ass reason, I mean 200fps, but... thats not what this is about)
    My RAM: 48GB (2*8GB+2*16GB) of Patriot Viper 4 DDR4 3200MHz. I bought the extra 32GB because Space Engineers (and infinite-future proofing)... the game itself can run up 16GB of RAM.
    SE (and steam) are on my Samsung 950 Pro M.2 512GB SSD.
    850W thermaltake power supply, no problemo, everything on a MSI Z170A Gaming M7 mobo, almost too many fans because I hate when air sits still... as I always say, make the world do work for you, don't work for the world, cause then your the sl- wait can I say that?.... indentured servant by force...

    "What is he getting at?" your finally asking while you read this...
    This:

    Honestly, screw these updates. I understand some people have problems, and there are bugs with some systems, I'd wager at least 40% of people couldn't properly troubleshoot a bug, no offence to anyone I'm not saying it's you reading this...
    But with how hard my computer runs while playing... I can't even imagine how impossible it'd be to play SE on anything that costs less than $1250. Do you need an i9-7980XE to finally not be topping off the CPU. What happens to billy with the 8GB laptop when SE wants to use all 8? His game crashes? He bluescreens or something? Performance just drops immensely? Or is he just not allowed to build a bigger ship. He has to use a world with less asteroids, no planets.

    The performance of SE is so execrable compared to any other game (except The Witcher 3 cause 4K everything maxed on that stabs a 1080 GPU in the face with a red hot spear, also looks like real life).

    But don't mistake my words here. I love SE. I have waited for SE all my life. The concept is perfect, the product is priceless (well the cost of the game, and a beefy system to run it decently, so perhaps rather... wallet-less). I have a block addiction (please make an encased gyroscope KEEN, spheres make more triangles and complex calculation work compared to a cube, and cubes are sexier) and I don't think I'll stop playing Space Engineers until something even more perfect replaces it years from now. Its like space minecraft on LSD, a magical dream where you can survive and build, or if your more the get-her-done type, paint the picture and move on, you can just place the blocks in creative. I was introduced to minecraft in the early 1.2 beta and bought it shortly before the 1.3 beta update and have been playing it since (though only modded now, I play every game loaded with mods).

    And as far as I can tell, Space Engineers will be the same way for me. I saw it on youtube in 2015, and I was like: WOAH SO COOL! BUYING IT! Bought it before the video got 2 minutes in. Opened a world, and I don't remember how but I'm pretty sure the first thing I did was crash a ship and blow myself up. Spent like a week on that world. Then I made a new asteroid world, failed at making a base, found one out in space, commandeered it, ripped most of it apart leaving the frame really, and made it my own. And I was so damn happy. When planets came out I transferred everything to a new world with planets, I'm still using that space station... and I plan to forever (jk it's going to be a small sub-portion of my new Cruiser Class Battleship and probably actually get changed so much it wont have any original blocks left :/ )

    All I wish is that I didn't have to sweat after an hour in SE... some optimizations would be FAR more appreciated than these patch updates, even if these patch updates halted for months to focus on optimizing the game (and improving texture quality, i know that's backwards from what I'm saying, but... again my GPU is pretty cool in SE and texture quality is crappy at best when your actually next to a block, and the trippy fractals of the shadows caused by the unevenness of the surface of large bodies (at least the moon) as you move closer and further is just, no more fractal graphics, if I'm far aware, it should all just blend together mildly).
    Hell, if it ran even 10% better I'd love you a bunch (talking to you people at KEEN). Let me be at least at margarine with too many mods and scripts running and too many blocks and honestly it's like I'M trying to break it now that I think about it...

    Gotta go fast, I walk fast, I run pretty fast, I drive literally 20-30mph over the speed limit everywhere I go. And if it's open highway, I'm going at LEAST 95. But SE, so slow... moldy cream cheesed bagel kind of slow. I hope I've reinforced my point...


    lol (its a sign), at least it's not just you :woot: (they're coming for you) probably some newbie admin or dev messed something up (they're inside your house) probably nothing to worry about (turn around)... have fun...
    --- Automerge ---
    Wind turbines would be dope (too bad my base is on the moon though), I don't spend like ANY time looking at the forums typically, so I know nothing about a teaser like this.
    Now as far as the generators:
    Hydrogen: No, stop. Take a physics class. If you have to use an oxygen generator to turn ice into oxygen and hydrogen (should really be called a dihydrogen monoxide electrolyzer) then it'd make no sense to use the hydrogen produce to make energy unless you had 0 purpose for the hydrogen.
    I have NO idea how much power/energy the oxy generators use, BUT lets just say it uses 1Wh and goes through 10kg of ice (here forth labeled H20). Whatever hydrogen you produce from said H20 is finite, obviously. This is definitely not correct but let's assume it filled one hydrogen tank. The MAXIMUM energy you could get from burning the hydrogen is the same as the energy used to make the hydrogen.
    The electrolysis calculation is simple->(E is a set energy quantity) 2H20(s)+E=2H2(g)+O2(g)(+heat likely, if the ice was actually melted and boiled into steam the hydrogen and oxygen gases would actually absorb heat, but this requires heating the ice first and the whole process is using a LOT of energy).
    To burn the hydrogen->(H and e are new set energy quantities) O2(g)+2H2(g)+e(igniting flame or spark likely)=H(heat and light)+2H20(g)
    Now hydrogen burns fairly dim, usually orange, sometimes invisible when used in something like a torch so there's not much light but if you wanted your generator to be most efficient, you ought to have a good way to capture that (or block it and turn it to heat). Hydrogen combustion does release a LOT of heat, that's your main source of energy here, the hot steam and anyone can get energy from that, but you'll never get all the of energy back (remember you started with ice, to get all your heat back, that steam has to become ice).
    Here's the only thing a hydrogen fueled generator is good for: recycling. So if your into that and have excessive hydrogen then okay, get some energy back, but it'd have to be efficient enough that it's worth the man power and resources to make it and keep it supplied. And if you weren't using enough oxygen to keep generating O2 and H2 gases then you'd run out of fuel, so for someone like myself who doesn't even have more than one hydrogen tank or oxygen tank for your jet-pack and... breathable air, this would be pointless. (I turn on my oxy generator about once a week to top off the tanks, then its back off).
    Ice generator: I'm going to presume this is supposed to be an all-in-one electrolyzer and hydrogen combustion generator. Which following my prior stated chemistry, would literally be something for uneducated players to waste time and resources on. Maybe if it deletes post-combustion byproducts I'd build it just to get rid of the 5000kg of ice I have stored.
    The most likely thing regarding Hydrogen and power generation would be some kind of tritium(hydrogen with two neutrons rather than typical protium with 0)-deuterium(1 neutron) fusion reactor. But if you could find tritium in space it'd be in EXTREMELY low quantities, really not viable at all, to be any bit realistic, most players would never find it, and if they did, it'd be probably less than 1 gram and the only viable way to get tritium is using lithium-6 in nuclear reactor control rods (so KEEN could update adding lithium sources then required in reactor components and reactors could dump light amount of tritium) and it can be uncommonly produced through fission of U-235, U-233, and Pu-239 (sourced wikipedia for the tritium, it's fairly useless stuff, unless your the military or a mad scientist) Honestly I'd expect KEEN (if they were to do ANYTHING with tritium) would more likely make tritium warheads, but honestly it'd likely be a post-final-release update or DLC, I can't see them wasting time on it, people would be so mad if they started adding entire new sections of science into the game while performance has never even been fixed.
    What does anyone use a Small Advanced Rotor for..? Legitimate question here, because I've never had to use a rotor before. I tried once to make a giant spinning drill head on a mining ship but my ship would spin instead of the head so. When I looked at the mass of the two sections, the mining head was almost 10x the mass of the ship so it actually kinda made sense that the head was only barely spinning while the ship just went for the ride of its life, could've been a bug, but the science added up, so it's a good bug if that's the case.
    I will comment/answer one statement/question/sentence at a time here:
    Wheels do suck, but do you understand how much physics goes into a wheel. Allow me to try to explain:
    We hit the gas, the torque applies, wheels start to spin, but you don't move. There's not enough friction between the wheels and the ground.
    This is the first real problem in SE (in regards to wheels that is). The last time (which was the only time) I built a wheeled vehicle (granted this was on the moon, but it weighed about 500,000kg (about 100 heavy monster trucks) with nothing in the inventories yet even, so it had plenty of mass weighing down on the wheels) I had this problem, I couldn't get enough friction between the wheels and the ground. (Friction is actually what pushes a vehicle forward, the bottom of a wheel pushes backwards relative to the car, the ground pushes forward, if there's no slipping, the car goes forward, slipping or spinning your tires=no movement (maybe a little)) The problem I see with wheels is that KEEN wants the PLAYERS to decide how the wheels operate. There's so many settings for a wheel, and so many different possible combinations that I don't think even every space engineer could collectively try each combination for just one vehicle to find the absolute ideal. Excluding steering and any inverters, there are (by my calculations) nearly 400 trillion different possibilities of various wheel configurations. Multiply by how many wheels a vehicle may have (maybe your vehicle is poorly balanced and different wheels need different better settings) and you've reached the quadrillions.
    KEEN needs a system to auto-magically balance the vehicle based on the average direction and magnitude of incline for the calculated domain between the wheels of the ground area under a vehicle while also taking into account any sharp extremities (is there a random bump or hole that a specific wheel needs to lower or raise suspension to avoid your vehicle taking off like a ramp on one corner)
    And also it must apply the right friction and torque per wheel based on the surface said wheel is on. I don't know if KEEN uses a specific friction coefficient that is applied to all surfaces (if so... BAD KEEN, BAD, ice is slippery, a rock is not (usually)) but presuming they have different friction coefficients for various surfaces as would make sense: the wheels must either change air pressure (or whatever fills SE tires) to flatten and puff up the wheels dynamically as it rides over a certain surface, or KEEN needs to make a "best friction coefficient" for the surface players are most likely drive on (probably stone, maybe add ice wheels designed for vehicles designed for ice....if that makes sense. Like an ice miner, because ice lakes are a thing, you know.)
    Variable friction coefficients between surfaces would be ideal because it'd be the most like real life driving, if you haul a$$ down a mountainside, drive onto an ice lake and hit the brakes, guess what: You're not going to stop. Your wheels will almost certainly stop spinning because the brake is slowing the wheel itself, and the wheel will skid over the ice slowly catching on little rough patches eventually bringing you to a stop much later, maybe you already crashed, who knows.
    As for taking off when you hit a grain of sand..... you're obviously being dramatic, but I'm going to presume I'm in the bottom 5-20% on the list of wheeled vehicle experience, so take my word with that grain of sand, but it never flipped me over and exploded (I did intentionally hit a decent sized boulder/remains-of-a-small-sharp-hill-after-being-pounded-by-meteors-for-a-long-time to have some fun and it was anticlimactic as hell it kinda tipped, then kinda fell back down, did a wobbly dance, and minimal damage (mind you this was a long time ago so updates could have broken/changed something, I'll try it again soon and see how they are now).
    What I'd recommend for a vehicle is to add a thruster to the back of it somewhere. gets you going faster, and if you're purely driving for fun, add some more and find a hill, thats the real OG way to die.
    As for stationary jittering... standing next to a wheel as I type this... it's perfectly fine.
    Perpetual speed: Are you on an incline? we already know friction sucks... Try setting the speed limit of the wheels to 0, theoretically they shouldn't be allowed to spin at all then, presuming the handbrake is just broken that is.
    --- Automerge ---
    I don't know what data you're referring to, but everything about my solar panels seems to work perfectly fine...
    Is that actually a game bug? I've never had a spotlight randomly explode O_o
    Yes, always nice... and... do your cargo containers get destroyed often? I mean, yes obviously nice to have the stuff in them if they break, but if something like a missile hits it, it actually makes sense that you'd lose likely most of whatever is inside (maybe that still happens, never had this bug, is the fix only in terms of grinding it down?)
    ..."I'm still hoping for a fix to a grid's conveyor network failing after it loses power"... Don't lose power? Sometimes unavoidable I get it, but... there's this AMAZING thing called a backup generator, you build two(or more ;) ) reactors (or whatever source of power) for every one you need, then you never have power issues and if something happens to one, you have the other(s).
    What's not perfect about flying? Honestly KEEN can delete them wheels, I think they create problems for people more-so than they help anyone. The thruster is >> the wheel.
    If you're referring to the turrets shooting they're own grids, I believe that was (supposedly) fixed a few updates ago. I never had the issue though, so I can't say, doesn't do it now still :I (idk where y'all put your turrets inside a place is a bad idea btw, blame yourself if half your walls are broken cause they're getting shot, you think people just leave bullet holes laying around in walls and stuff whenever they get shot for whatever reason, idk maybe the mafia is raiding a hotel with a bunch of people who owe em money, and guns start going off. Someones gotta fix those bullet holes, and the owner pays for it or goes to court, anyways, there's a cost. You pay for your bullet holes.)
    Tell me... how do you add another row...? I didn't know that was a thing, I hit enter it just... like... confirms it...
     
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